they cancelled car insurance without telling me!

[bazaar]

hi sim
have you sent off the subject access request?. This will give you the necessary paperwork to decide to claim against them. Obviously, there would not be any letters showing sent to you regarding the cancellation of policy, Your recording wouldnt stand as it is, because you would have had to advise them that you were recording the conversation at the time.
You need to complain in writing first, get their procedures and follow them. In your complaint you could invite them to pay you for their errors (you'll need to work out what it costs you). Once the complaints procedure is exhausted, then you can report them to the Ombudsman.

Then you'll issue a 'letter before action' if you want to go further.
Are you going to court soon?

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	The Financial Ombudsman Service For the most part, don't bother. The Ombudsman is an industry arranged service which is under-resourced, takes too long, lacks clear transparency. You have no idea what evidence the FOS has received from the bank or how your complain has really been handled. The FOS is the preferred complaints route for the banking industry. The county court is to be preferred by consumers for its speed, openness, the quality of its awards and also because it will award 8% interest on top of any damages won by you. The Ombudsman should normally be used to solving little technical difficulties or customer service problems which you have expereinced with your bank.

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[sim42]

thanks monty and bazaar
at the beginning i asked if i could record the call so should be okay. I've sent a formal complaint which will be reviewed impartially by the FSA so that should hopefully add weight to my argument. If thats not satifactory then i will go to the obbudsman.

bazaar, i sent off the Subject Access Request (by recorded delivery) about 10 days ago but they have 40 days in which to respond and i don't think they're in any hurry

at last i feel like im getting somewhere.

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[patdavies]

Originally Posted by bazaar

Your recording wouldnt stand as it is, because you would have had to advise them that you were recording the conversation at the time.

No you don't. There is no requirement to do so for an individual when recording a personal call.

[BSC]

Originally Posted by patdavies

No you don't. There is no requirement to do so for an individual when recording a personal call.

Since when has calling a business been a 'personal' call?? Sorry but your wrong.

[sim42]

hi guys
just want to drop a new angle on things.
what would happen if i went to court and they accepted my special reasons and i escaped penalty points/fine. Would that still mean however, that i was still convicted of driving uninsured?
if so, what are the implications? would i for example, have to declare this when getting a new car insurance quote and if so would it bump up the price as much as someone convicted with full points and a fine?

finally, im now worried this could be put onto my criminal record. I know its a crime but surely its not recorded - is it? After all, i thought speeding was a criminal matter but who hasn't had a speeding fine at some point?

can any of you brainy law guys out their shed some light on this.

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[patdavies]

Originally Posted by BSC

Since when has calling a business been a 'personal' call?? Sorry but your wrong.

No, I'm not

Oftel FAQs

Can I record telephone conversations on my home phone?

Yes. The relevant law, RIPA, does not prohibit individuals from recording their own communications provided that the recording is for their own use.

Do I have to let people know that I intend to record their telephone conversations with me?

No, provided you are not intending to make the contents of the communication available to a third party. If you are you will need the consent of the person you are recording.

[patdavies]

Originally Posted by sim42

hi guys
just want to drop a new angle on things.
what would happen if i went to court and they accepted my special reasons and i escaped penalty points/fine. Would that still mean however, that i was still convicted of driving uninsured? Yes
if so, what are the implications? would i for example, have to declare this when getting a new car insurance quote and if so would it bump up the price as much as someone convicted with full points and a fine? Yes, you have still been convicted

finally, im now worried this could be put onto my criminal record. I know its a crime but surely its not recorded - is it? After all, i thought speeding was a criminal matter but who hasn't had a speeding fine at some point? It is defined as a non-recordable offence; it won't show on a CRB check, etc.

can any of you brainy law guys out their shed some light on this.

The 'special reasons' are to not be given any endorsement (penalty points). Such reasons do not remove any conviction or liability for a fine. In fact, the fine may be pitched higher as an alternative to endorsement.

I have to say though, it appears to be an open and shut case with no defence nor valid special reasons. This is because the offence is 'strict liability' and intent plays no part.

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[bazaar]

Originally Posted by patdavies

No, I'm not

Oftel FAQs

now now children. . I believe the original intent to record the conversation is to then use it as leverage in a possible claim against the insurer, so strictly speaking you would need to tell them your were recording to strengthen the claimants position

[sim42]

Originally Posted by patdavies

I have to say though, it appears to be an open and shut case with no defence nor valid special reasons. This is because the offence is 'strict liability' and intent plays no part.

can you expand on this. If this isn't a valid special reason, what would be? The special reasons argument was created for a reason; to allow people such as myself to escape points whereby the situation could not have been practically avoided.
I can think of no clearer example of a special reason. If this doesn't qualify in your book, what would? or do you disagree with the whole 'special reasons' concept cos im afraid you can't make up your own laws.

[vusys1]

I have written quite a few statements for the Police when they have been prosecuting unisured drivers etc,usually when the plead not guilty etc.And the CPS want statement of events that led to cancellation or invalid insurance etc.

Have CIS provided the Police with one?

if as you said CIS confirmed they did not send any letters to confirm that they were cancelling your policy (which they are obliged to do) then I dont see a problem.