Can I claim for integrated child seats

[howticklediam]

Hi,

My car has been written off in an accident which was not my fault (hit from behind in traffic jam).

We have been paid out for the car by our own insurers who will in turn claim from the responsible driver's insurance. When I negotiated for the price of the car they said they would not take into consideration the fact that it had integrated child seats as these were an optional extra when the car was new, and they don't make special consideration for optional extras, they give an overall price for the car based on age and condition in Glasses Guide.


We use child seats daily so we have had to buy two new ones for our replacement car at a cost of £130 each. Can we claim against the responsible driver's insurer for these replacement seats.

Thanks

Andy


EDIT: To save you reading to the bottom if you are interested in the outcome. Using the advice given here I wrote back to my insurance company and asked for an extra payment for car seats and they paid out immediately. Great result, thanks. Andy

[Lula]

I would say yes, you lost the other ones as they were integrated, so you required replacements, so I would claim them.

[Mossycat]

No is the answer to that.

You claim off the responsible party for any UNINSURED losses, ie excess, car hire etc etc.

Anything that is physically part of your car and not removable or transferable to a new vehicle is classed as part of your car and as such was dealt with in the valuation offered by your own insurer.

The underlying principal of insurance is that of indemnity, ie you will be put back in the same position after the incident as you were before it occured, so if a car costs more because it has extras and these were disclosed to your insurer then any valuation they offer and you accept would incorporate these extras.

If however these items are specifically excluded and therefore not insured by your own insurer then you can claim that they are uninsured losses, but I doubt that the third party insurers would accept integrated child seats as an uninsured loss, since they were fundamentally a part of the vehicle that was written off and paid out for by your own insurers.

Mossy

[howticklediam]

Thanks for the reply Mossy.

Verbally I was told that the fact that the car had child seats made no difference to the valuation, but they would not put it in writing.

So in reality I have lost two child seats and not been paid out for them.

But I have no documentation to back this up.

Similarly they have no documentation to say the seats were accounted for in the value of the car so who would the ombudsman agree with do you think?

Andy

[gyzmo]

I disagree and in the past have successfuly argued for and won the case for integrated child seats to be included in teh settlement.

the fact that they are an optional extra is irrelevant to Glasses or any other guide which are that only - guides. Put a letter of complaint in and if unresoved then refer to the FOS who I am sure would agree.

[Mossycat]

I agree with Gyzmo (yet again)

Anything integrated to the car is part of the car, and since Glass's Guide (et al) only quote for a standard car the valuation given would not include integrated car seats.

Your first line of attack is a letter to your own insurers asking why the value of the child seats was not included in the valuation (if they write back and say it was you are kind of stuffed in that you have accepted the valuation and would find it hard to prove that the valuation didn't include them), if they write back giving you a reason then point out to them that they are supposed to put you back in the position you were in prior to the incident and since the car was a write off it will cost you more than the cost of a standard car to replace it with one with integrated child seats.

If your arguments fall on deaf ears and you have their arguments in writing then it will make it easier when you write to FOS.

Mossy

[howticklediam]

OK thanks, it's worth writing a letter.

I have already accepted a payment from my own insurer, but I suppose I can always ask the question in a way which is difficult to answer ambiguously. Like "can you confirm that the payment included the value of replacing a vehicle with child seats". And send a copy to my solicitor who are dealing with the uninsured losses.

If I get it in writing that they did not include the car seats then I have a case to claim for an uninsured loss against the other driver, and they can then fight amonst themselves.

If they say it did then as you say I am stuffed. Once I have accepted a settlement can I go back and ask for more with the backing of FOS if the valuation was unfairly low?

Andy

Edit: And it's not just that the cars are more expensive with child seats, they are much harder to find, infact almost non-existent, so to find a suitable one would involve an unjustifiable amount of time and effort.

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

How long ago did you accept the offer from your insurers. If it was recently I would write back and rescind your acceptance on the basis of mistake.
Frankly I think they have breached their duty of utmost good faith in what they told you.

I am assuming that this is a Volvo that we are talking about (I know of know others that have built in child seats). The insurers are wrong to discount options unless they can demonstrate that the options have no impact on market value.

While it is true that many options have little increase on second hand value, with some cars the lack of some options will actually reduce the resale value by more than the original cost of the option!

[howticklediam]

It was about two weeks ago. It's a VW Sharan.

Thanks

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

OK I reckon that your first port of call is your insurer and to tell them that their failure to recognise that a car with in-built child seats has a higher market value than one without and to tell you specifically that they couldn't include them was a breach of their duty of utmost good faith.

Secondly, tackle the third party. Tell them that you hold them responsible for these costs. Tell them that you were mindful of your common law duty to mitigate your loss and that you therefore replaced your vehicle with the nearest suitable one as soon as you could after your insurers had settled. Tell them that unfortunately this meant that you could not replace with exactly the same make and model with the optional extra of factory fit car seats, but that the cheaper alternative was to buy them from an appropriate shop. Explain that this saved money compared with hiring a substitute vehicle for longer/at all while you searched for an exact replacement vehicle.

What you do need to prepare is an argument as to why you spent so much on car seats when they can be had for a lot less. Stuff like, the cheaper ones do not fit (if true) etc.

[howticklediam]

Thanks again for the advise. I am in the middle of drafting a letter to my insurance company right now, and have included the points you made and the point about indemnity.

I have said I accept the cost of the car valuation for the standard car but I am seeking and an additional amount to cover the seats. The amount I am seeking is what the seats are worth according to Glasses. I have also said I will go to the ombudsman next. If that doesn't work, then I'll go directly to the third party. How long is it reasonable to give my insurance company to reply to my letter - 2 weeks?

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

2 weeks is fine.

[howticklediam]

Thanks, for all your advice, Especially Bernie. I wrote back and included the points you made about utmost good faith and they paid out immediately for the full amount I asked for.

I'm going to donate part of the payment to the CAG.

Andy

[gyzmo]

nice one!