Chancel Repair Liability

[JamesBooker]

I've recently got a property pack for the house we're trying to buy and my conveyencer got a report from a company called ChancelCheck. The report says that my house is 'located within the historical boundary of a parish which continues to have a potential chancel repair liability based upon historical parish boundary data...'

They then proceed to try and sell me some insurance against any possible bill from the local church for repairs!

Has anyone heard of this and is it for real or just another way to sell insurance to the paranoid? It seems a bit extraordinary that in 2006 the church could demand money from the community.

[JonCris]

Originally Posted by JamesBooker

I've recently got a property pack for the house we're trying to buy and my conveyencer got a report from a company called ChancelCheck. The report says that my house is 'located within the historical boundary of a parish which continues to have a potential chancel repair liability based upon historical parish boundary data...'

They then proceed to try and sell me some insurance against any possible bill from the local church for repairs!

Has anyone heard of this and is it for real or just another way to sell insurance to the paranoid? It seems a bit extraordinary that in 2006 the church could demand money from the community.

It most certainly is for real & I strongly advise you to take out the insurance. Go here

Another member asked this question in the insurance section but I thought that this is so important to many people without them realizing it that I would start a specific thread to try & bring it everyones attention.

Before You read on if anyone thinks this is a windup then I strongly suggest they see their legal advisor asap particularly if they are buying a house

As you will note it involves the church's ancient right to demand payment from the parish for chancel repairs.

Re: Chancel Repair Liability
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesBooker
I've recently got a property pack for the house we're trying to buy and my conveyencer got a report from a company called ChancelCheck. The report says that my house is 'located within the historical boundary of a parish which continues to have a potential chancel repair liability based upon historical parish boundary data...'

They then proceed to try and sell me some insurance against any possible bill from the local church for repairs!

Has anyone heard of this and is it for real or just another way to sell insurance to the paranoid? It seems a bit extraordinary that in 2006 the church could demand money from the community.


Above was the question & below was my answer............

It most certainly is for real & I strongly advise you to take out the insurance. If in doubt go here

http://www.peterboroughdiocesanr egistry.co.uk/chancels.html

http://property.timesonline.co.u k/article/0,,14051-2267145,00.html

http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/ld200203/ldjudgmt/jd030626/aston-1.htm


I know all about this as since the ruling my wife now conducts these searches for her clients as matter of course.

As you will see form the above links this right of the church has come to particular attention because of the litigation when a family inherited a home & later they received a demand from the local parish church for, I think it was about £10,000 for chancel repairs.

They refused on principal & fought it all the way to the House of Lords. They lost so not only did they have to pay up they also left themselves with a huge legal bill which greatly exceeded the value of their property which I understand they had to sell. I also recall they talked in the press of going bankrupt

That's the bad news the good news (if you can call it that) is that their Lordships also ruled that the church must register all property that may be subject to such a charges within 10 years of their 2003 ruling by the year 2013 otherwise they will use the right to enforce this levy

The church are currently spending over £500,000 & have set up a special department to see that all properties at risk are registered. They recently advertised for staff in the Law Gazette

The definition for a liable property are those that are within a medieval parish boundry. Even newly built properties can & will be affected.

Needless to say my home (built in 1985) has been checked out & appears in the clear. Nevertheless we are still going to insure. The premium depends on the value of the property but I understand starts at £58 + vat for 25 years cover & I consider it a small price to pay for peace of mind.

[drmjafri]

As advised

I queried whether future change in law would invalidate my insurance
I got this reply from my solicitor

- She reassured me however she also mentions-

Once the insurance is taken out, only changes in law can invalidate the existing policy

which is exactly my worry.

so friends what to do. help please

[JonCris]

Oh please!!!!!!!!! take out the insurance for your own peace of mind, or don't its upto you.

The insurance company will be bonded (as they have to be) so even if they go bust your covered

No one, not even your lawyer, can give you a categorical assurance that the law won't some day change.

Car insurance might become illegal but we won't know until it happens will we.

	Car Insurance

[isobel]

Hello. I know it sounds unlikely but in fact these ancient liabilities do still affect a vast percentage of homes, the owners of many of which still do not know about the possible costs they could face. This is because until the last two or three years, it was not customary to carry out these searches. It has become topical since 2003 because the Land Registry have effectively placed a time limit on the church authorities to register their rights - this has meant a flurry of research and registrations and a few shocked home owners. There has been one very notorious case in which a home owner was made to pay over £90,000. This is why insurance is a good idea but it cannot cover you entirely - it will only be for a limited period of time, usually to co-incide with the length of your mortgage. After that, you are on your own. If it was me, I would want the insurance!

[rbrears]

Also bear in mind that if a search is done it alerts the church authorites to the fact that you have done the search and so they are more likely to register the interest against your property. But on balance you MUST insure against this possibility. Its a very small price to pay for a possibly very large liability.

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[Planner]

Lets hope theres no Mosques or synagogues built on old church land or it could all get very messy.

[robbo999]

I am in the process of buying a new build house and have had a letter from the solicitor today quoting potential chancel repair liability. She makes nothing of it at all - just asks what level of insurance cover we would like to purchase. Having had a look on the internet it seems this could be 'much ado about nothing', or it could be a complete disaster for some poor sucker who ends up with a property nobody will buy. Is it enough to put me off buying this house, or would this be an over reaction? Obviously no-one can predict whether the law will ever be changed, so would it be better to steer clear? What happens when the insurance runs out in 25 years? (Why does buying houses have to be so hard?!). Any opinions would be welcome.

[JonCris]

I started I simular thread some time ago a regarding this.
I will now correct a few mistaken comments that are being made

The case to which that is being referred too & whcih brought this to public attention was a family who inherited a property. Sometime later as they where within the ancient parish & on Glebe Land they received a bill for £7K for the repair to the Chancel. However before they would pay they required that the church give an assurance that there would be no further repair bills The church refused & the family unwisely fought it all the way to the House of Lords where they lost having incurred huge legal costs on top of the original £7K.

Me teas here so I'm off but I will comment later

[chappie123]

It seems the Church have found a potential easy way of getting money out of alot of people by using a old and forgotten law-hardly Christian of them to puirsue people in this way but then money is involved.
They will make alot of enemies if they pursue this course of action. But laws can change ...whos to say the billions of pounds locked up in the land/funds the church owns could not be sold off or Faith schools should become secular..or the church representatives removed from the House of Lords

[JonCris]

To continue from my last post.
If your conveyancer undertakes a Chancel search it DOES NOT alert the church authorities to your possible liability. What it does do is identify that your property is at risk if it is within a medieval parish boundry & possibly built on Glebe land.........therefore you can insure it.......However if you do a full search through the public records office (which some are doing) & establish beyond doubt that it is built on Glebe land then you MUST register that fact with the Land Registery & as you have confirmed the liabilty you will NOT be able to insure it.............It is best to do a simple chancel search followed by insurance if a at risk

[half ax I]

You will all probably be aware of the case recently reported that led to huge bills for owners of a farm who had a field that was rectorial property.

Couple face £200,000 bill from ancient church law-Business-Law-TimesOnline

[JonCris]

Once AGAIN I will say this. They did not have a huge bill for church chancel repairs..........The original bill was for £7K but after the church refused to give a commitment that it would be the last demand they fought the case all the way to the House of Lords.........& lost.....The vast majority of the money they owe is for legal fees they have incurred

[althevet]

Originally Posted by JonCris

Once AGAIN I will say this. They did not have a huge bill for church chancel repairs..........The original bill was for £7K but after the church refused to give a commitment that it would be the last demand they fought the case all the way to the House of Lords.........& lost.....The vast majority of the money they owe is for legal fees they have incurred

Actually it is YOU that is wrong.
The Bill VERYquickly jumped to £95,000.
Although £200,000 has been spent on legal fees, the bill for repairs is around £200,000
They have now started investigating the foundations of the church and expect the repair bill to rise even more.
Try this website for the full story.
Church of England Bankrupts Family - Home

[mooreda]

i find this absolutely appalling and see the couple concerned being interviewed on "this morning" with Fern and Phillip Schofield

[JonCris]

Originally Posted by althevet

Actually it is YOU that is wrong.
The Bill VERYquickly jumped to £95,000.
Although £200,000 has been spent on legal fees, the bill for repairs is around £200,000
They have now started investigating the foundations of the church and expect the repair bill to rise even more.
Try this website for the full story.
Church of England Bankrupts Family - Home

I'm not wrong the original bill was £7K the rest of the repair bill has arisen subsequent to their starting legal action

[JonCris]

Further to my post 15...........Whilst I have sent an email expressing my disgust about the way this family have been treat by the church, I have to say the legal comment in the artical is very misleading.......& will if left unchallenged cause the value of some homes to be worthless.

This is very wrong & tantamount to scare tactics.......The legal position is that if your conveyencer undertakes a chancel search & finds there IS a RISK then you can insure against said risk...........& you don't have to inform the church..............If on the otherhand the buyer/seller searches more deeply into it & discovers for definite that your on Glebe land then you won't be able to insure it..........& again you will not be required to inform the church..........however you will be obliged to inform the Land Registry.....which in effect is the same thing

[althevet]

Originally Posted by JonCris

l.....The vast majority of the money they owe is for legal fees they have incurred

I don't want to seem pedantic but this is not the case, the escalation of the repair bill is not due to the legal case.The repair bill is due to the repairs that are required to repair the church. These are approaching £250,000 including the vat and are expected to rise now the foundations are being investigated. These costs are not related to the £200,000 of legal fees, which can not be considered the "vast majority" of the money owed so far, let alone the expected costs soon to come.

[JonCris]

Originally Posted by althevet

I don't want to seem pedantic but this is not the case, the escalation of the repair bill is not due to the legal case.The repair bill is due to the repairs that are required to repair the church. These are approaching £250,000 including the vat and are expected to rise now the foundations are being investigated. These costs are not related to the £200,000 of legal fees, which can not be considered the "vast majority" of the money owed so far, let alone the expected costs soon to come.

Neither do I but I will say again....the original bill was for £7K & they sought an assurance that if they paid it they would no longer be liable for further repairs.......This was refused & that's when there started the legal action which incurred the fees............The further repair costs are subsequent to the action being started

[althevet]

I agree the repair costs have risen over the length of time of the court case. However this is a factor of time, not the presence of a legal battle. The repair costs are expected to rise even though the legal battle has reached its conclusion. To say the vast majority of money owed is legal fees is wrong: Legal fees-£200,000. Repair costs approaching £250,000 and rising.
How is £200,000 "the vast majority" of £450,000?
The original bill of £6000 rising to £95000 rising to £250000 rising to whatever the next survey finds is independant of court fees. And it is wrong to suggest these people brought all these repair costs upon themselves by fighting the case. If they paid immediately and in full, the repair costs would still be rising as they are now. Various new unrelated items are being added all the time.