non direct fire damage

[gazhodge1981]

hi all, in december last year there was a fire in a hotel 4 doors down and was burnt down. the hotel is now be taken down totally, ( 7 months). We did not get any fire damage but the 3 hotels next to us did (lucky). any way we have since that day been developing cracks every where. there were 25 fire engines on the night and it took them 9 hours to completely get everything under control. so there wae alot of water poured on to the fire. all the hotel are built on sand, ours has been under pinned and we have been told by a survayer that the cracks are drying out cracks. the hotel was re built about 7 or 8 years ago from the ground up, everything new even the plaster the lot. is it possible for plaster to take 8 years to dry out????? or are the insurance trying to put the wool over my eyes. since the fire the cracks are getting more and more and new ones are apperaing because of all the trucks and diggers outside. has anyone got any advise on this. the thing i have now been told by the insurance is that we are under insured which i have now put the insurance up as they advised. they have told me that after i made a claim so they have said i would only be covered for 45% of the claim. can they do this as the insurace was taken on there advise??????
hope someone can help

[The cobbett slayer]

The problem here is that you cannot directly attribute the cracking in your building to the fire damage and to be fair, it is unlikely that 25 pumps (although that is a lot of fire engines) would be the cause.

Plaster doesn't take 8 years to dry out so I would agree that the surveyor is incorrect in that assertion, however, previous subsidence might suggest that the underpinning is not supporting the building and it is a recurrence of the original subsidence.

With regard to the under insurance, you must have been massively under insured! Pro-rata claim payments are based on the actual sum insured against the required sum. If the insurers are only prepared to pay 45%, that would suggest that your were 55% under insured and therefore paid 55% too little for your insurance so the important point here is did they survey the building prior to you taking out the policy and advise you on the sum insured. If so then you have recourse as it would appear that they told you what to insure it for and are now saying it's inadequate.

The whole thing sounds like a hell of a mess. Post as much info as possible and we'll see what we can do with it.

[gazhodge1981]

i think the problem with the cracks is that it has effected about 5 hotel, the 3 next to us had a lot of water damage. the cracks only started to appear after the fire. the only reason i bought the place was because there was nothing to do, it was all done. all 5 hotels have now got cracks, the problem is out of all 5 we are the only ones under pinned and there does seem to be some movement with the hotels (ie doors not shutting right, carpet now not fitting). i only moved in 11 months a go so i know how things were when we moved in.
as for the insurance, we were told a price for insuring and thats what we paid but when they did they us we were under insured we changed it straight away. we purchased the insurance on there advise as we had no idea on insurance really. when i say under insured it still was insured for £500,000, it is now insured for £800,000. (total rebuild) when they sent the survayer around he looked around, went and then sent us a letter on behalf of the insurance saying the we were inder insured and they would only pay 45% of a claim after the excess. (£250) there is a big crack at the front of the building which there survayor said it was a drain that had collaspted, so about 4 weeks later they sent someone to put a camera down it and guess what, the drain is fine no problems at all. this is where we are up to at the moment.
going back to the building, i have had a builder around who seems to think that we are beening sandwiched between the other hotels as the roof seems to be, being push up from both sides.
I get the feeling something is going on as no ones insurance has paid out yet, (the area we are in is wanted by the coucil) a couple of hotels have now got solicitors involved now.
any advise would be great.

[The cobbett slayer]

Another question.

We're the insurance company aware that the building had been underpinned and was it underpinned because of subsidence or it done as a precaution before any subsidence occurred?

Just as a thought, if the damage to your building is being caused by movement in other buildings, it may be worth looking at a claim on their insurance for the damage their buildings have caused to your property.

I don't think anything can be resolved until someone is able to give a definite cause for the cracking.

[gazhodge1981]

the under pinning was done as the building was re built for the ground up. there maybe a history of subsidence in the street but i would have to try and find that out.
i don't know if the insurance knew about the underpinning. the insurance must know what they were insuring. they also insure a few hotels in the same street, even two of the one who got damage.
what do you think should be my next move????

[The cobbett slayer]

Gaz - I've got to be honest and say I'm a bit rusty on this as I've been out of the insurance business for over 10 years so anything I do suggest is precisely that, a suggestion.

Has your builder done you a written report confirming his thoughts that you a basically being sandwiched between 2 other subsiding buildings? If your hotel isn't actually subsiding itself and the damage is caused purely by the others then I still think that you should be looking at a claim against the insurers/owners of the surrounding properties. It's not good for relations with the neighbours but that's what they have insurance for.

Going back to the under insurance problem, did the insurance company actually visit the hotel prior to insuring it or did you just go to them with a sum insured and they gave you a premium for that.If they surveyed the hotel (and I would be very surprised if they didn't given the nature of your business) and told you what the sum insured should be then obviously thay have to accept some, if not total liability for the under insurance. If it was you that put the figure to them then it will be seen as being your own fault. The only other thing is that your mortgage survey would almost certainly have a recommended buildings sum insured as this is rarely the same as the purchase price. If the mortgage company or your solicitor did not bring this to your attention you might conceivably have some come back there but I think it's a very long shot.

[The cobbett slayer]

I did notice Beccus looking at this. She currently works for an insurance company so her knowledge will be rather fresher than mine.

Perhaps she can offer some thoughts on this.

[gazhodge1981]

how would i get hold of beccus. any help at this point would be great because as you can tell after 7 months it's really dragging with no end in sight.l

[The cobbett slayer]

I've pm'd her so hopefully she'll get back to you if she can offer any sort of advice.

[beccus]

hi
I'm here and happy to have a look for you
It may just take me a little bit of time to get some answers together, also please bear in mind I can only talk generally Cheers

Be Back with you asap
Becca

[gazhodge1981]

hi becca, any help at this point would be great.

i look forward to hearing from you
gareth

[gazhodge1981]

as i remember is, the morgage company wanted us to be insured before we moved in. this side of things was sorted out by the solicitor, now this is were thing get a bit funny. the company that insured was a relation to the solicitor, the company that insured us had now been bought out by another company called andersons. all i was given was the amount i had to pay so i payed it. i was not given any options on insurance or anything. the only time i even meet the people at the insurance was to pay for it. the solicitors are a big company in blackpool called cuddywood solicitors.
as for the builder i can soon get him to do a report on the building. i was going to get another survay done????????

[beccus]

Just a quick update gaz - i've got one of my colleagues here to have a little look for me to try and see what we can explain, hope this is ok.

Becca

[beccus]

Hi Gaz
My colleague has looked over the information that you have posted on here and because this is such an individual case we really think that your best course of action is to go back to your insuurance company for further advice. May I ask if it is NU that you are insured with? If so then I am able to go further with this, but obviously I have to be careful if this is insurance from another company. If it is NU, please email me your policy number nad claim number to rebecca.sibley@norwich-union.co.uk

I'm sorry I can't offer more help.
All the best with this
Becca

[The cobbett slayer]

Anything new to report Gaz?

[gazhodge1981]

hi, sorry for not getting back to you all, the hotel has been very busy this week. (kids off school). will get back to everyone in a few hours will all the information.

[gazhodge1981]

hi all, right lets get down to business. the insurance company in s green insurance and the pol number is 0045014567. the insurance was done throght a broker called andersons and co in blackpool.
just one question. the insurance are trying to double the insurance for next year as it is due soon, they have said that the claim i have made means that it will double. can they do this as there had been no payout what so ever,??? (not even close) can anyone anwser this question.