First Direct Here We Come! - **WON**

[tkcakes]

We're new to this so hope we're posting correctly!
we've just received the statements from FD - a good ream of paper! I'm hoping FD buddies can help us out on this one. Are we right to just add up the bank charges as in all charges other than interest or do we include interest too? Oh and what time period is it again? Like others, we've just a whopping £89 charge so we're even more determined to go all the way on this.

[bram stoker]

Have you seen my spreadsheet in the bank templates library? I have included some notes in there, although I am waiting for a download of updated ones which are clearer.

[tkcakes]

Wow - I'm certainly a novice and questioning my intelligence! I'm still determined but my head is spinning!! Can I just give the stage I'm at.... I wrote a letter as suggested: "Please supply me with a complete list of transactions and charges relating to my bank account since 1st Jan 2000 to 30th April 2006. Alternatively a complete set of bank statements for that period will be acceptable.

Additionally where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my banking business with you.

If you are unable to supply data relating to manual intervention because there has been no such manual intervention then please be kind as to confirm this in your response to this request.

You have 40 days in which to comply"
FD have obliged and sent me the statements and reference notes and 'martini' notes. Very scary reading them back - I feel like I'm reliving all those dark tense financial moments! I have begun to put them on my own spreadsheet - split (so far) between: Interest; Overdraft fee;excess overdraft fees; arrangement fees and service charge (whatever that was for!). I'm confused over what I can potentially claim for in these catagories and also what other considerations I should take into account ie what specifically is meant by 'manual intervention'
I think this site is fabulous although I feel daunted and a little doubtful of the payback - the usual 'it'll never work for me' attitude I'm afraid. However, I really realy appreciate any help and also time spent in replying and reading my bits.

[bram stoker]

Originally Posted by tkcakes

Interest; Overdraft fee;excess overdraft fees; arrangement fees and service charge (whatever that was for!). I'm confused over what I can potentially claim for in these catagories and also what other considerations I should take into account ie what specifically is meant by 'manual intervention'

Interest - that's a separate issue, check my notes in the spreadsheet.
Excess OD fees - claim them
Arrangement fees - these were probably agreed and they should have looked at your file in detail and discussed this with you, possibly even a meeting at your branch
Service charge - claim them
Anything else that appears to be automated - claim them

With regards to manual intervention, it is up to you personally reading through your notes as to whether or not a charge that has been applied justifies it's cost, but everyone seems to be claiming everything and asking the bank to justify their costs in court. Have a good read around the site on this issue as it has been discussed in length.

Hope this helps.

[tkcakes]

Me again - just about to prepare letter to send to bank requesting refund of the charges £2099 over 6 years. Apologies for not finding this info myself but could you remind me of how far I can legally go back to claim and if say it's 6 years is that 6 years from the date of the letter that I send in to reclaim? Also, I've decided not to claim for interest, the amount above is simply made up if o/draft fees and other charges - I assume that this is still acceptable and that by not claiming the interest I won't be compromising my claim? Incidently, having just received another recent excess charge, I complained and were happy to give me a full refund (not including interest of course) - I wish I'd been more proactive in the past - you live and learn eh? When I send the ltter in do I list how the charges are made up ie date and amount etc or can I just put the lump sum in the letter alone? Many many thanks for any help received.x

[bram stoker]

Firstly you are entitled to claim any interest that relates to the penalties you've been charged. You'll find more notes to this in my spreadsheet in the bank templates forum, along with how to calculate a good estimate.

The six years has been long debated on this site. I would claim six years back from the date you calculate it, but send the letter sharpish.

You can request a total, and this is normally the case, but my bank asked me for a breakdown, so I now include it to start with. That's your decision.

At the end of the day you must make this claim personally between you and your bank. They won't appreciate a copied template that bears no relevance to your account or circumstances.

Well done on claiming the recent refund. Keep it up with any future charges.

Good luck with the biggy.

[tkcakes]

Well as expected, I;ve received the 'First Direct does not agree with your contention' letter. They have quoted the operating your account clause 6.9. I assume this has been the same for everyone else?? They do say that I can contact Robert Kernaghan the Customer Relations Manager and they also mention the Financial Ombudsman. The date of their letter is 25th May. Could anyone keep me right with when I should be putting my next letter in by and confirm which one is recommended. Many thanks for help on this scary but exhilarating journey!!

[Janet-M]

By asking these questions it is obvious that you have not read the FAQ's . please spend a few days to read around the forum and especially the FAQ's.If you have any questions then please use the search facility where you will find most have already been asked.This is not to be awkward but it is in your best interest so that you fully understand what you are undertaking and each stage of it.

[maisielou]

Hi
sounds like you have sent the first letter giving them 14 days.................now its the LBA which you will find in the template library.......good luck

[tkcakes]

Thanks for the nudge in the right direction. I have had hours of reading others and I do think the website is fantastic (after all we wouldn't be doing these claims without those experienced at it giving help and advice) but this is something I've never attempted (just heard the 'beating the bank charge' advert on the TV while tying this - how spooky!) and just need my hand held - please be patient with me .
Anyway I understand this is my next approach (I've included this letter as much for others benefit as my own). The letter received from my bank just suggested that I escelate my concerns if I want so that no deadline is in place so it'll be getting sent off tomorrow. ???? Do you have to send everything recorded delivery??
"Further to your letter dated 25th May, we are very disappointed that you have failed to respond satisfactorily to our letter of the 23 May 2006.
We still consider that the regime of 'fees' which you have been applying to our account in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent Consumer regulations.

We would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that we opened our account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

We are frankly shocked that you have operated my account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary.

We calculate that you have taken £2053.00 in charges and we enlose a copy of the schedule of the charges which we are claiming. We have already sent you a copy of this in our original letter of the 23 May 2006.
We require repayment in full of this money. If you do not comply fully within 14 days then we shall begin a claim against you for the full amount plus interest plus our costs and without further notice.

Furthermore, we shall submit a Consumer Credit Act 1974 complaint to the OFT upon the basis that you have failed to comply with the OFT's direction of 5 April 2006 and are therefore not a 'fit and proper person' to hold a consumer credit licence under the 1974 Act. If you do not understand what this means then seek advice from your legal department."

[barracad]

Originally Posted by tkcakes

Do you have to send everything recorded delivery??

There is no need to send any of your letters by Recorded Delivery - ordinary First Class will do, you don't even need proof of posting.

[Movingon]

True... however if they deny ever having received it, and you have a signature and a delivery receipt from the Royal Mail Website (as provided with Recorded Delivery) it can prove to the court that their contentions are inaccurate. It can also act as a catalyst to get the bank moving prior to court if you say (for instance) "I have proof that you received my request at your offices on <date> and therefore your 40 days to comply with my request expires on <date+40>".

Personally, I'm sending everything recorded except LBA's which I'm sending Special Delivery.

[tkcakes]

Well FD have kindly replied to my LBA to say that they still don't agree with me, they've repeated the 'clauses' and pointed me in the direction of the ombudsman. So ........ I'm off to research my next scary step! Any help or advice would be greatly received. One question is - do I need wait until the 14 days notice that I originally give FD or because of the fact they've replied to say no already make any difference?

[DazNorthants]

It does seem that waiting the time you set would be seen as you being reasonable by a Court should you get there. Anyway you waited this long so 14 days won't kill you - But it so horrible waiting I know!

[tkcakes]

I've familiarised myself with the moneyclaim website in preparation for my next hurdle but I'm after a little bit of help ...................
- my last letter to FD warning them was 6th June (I did get a reply to the LBA from FD dated 9th June) I know that I should wait until the 14 days are up from the 6th June - this is probably a ridiculously obvious answer but can I wait more than 14 days to raise the claim or does it have to be excactly 14 days? Reason is I'm working away next week and won't have access to the moneyclaim website until Friday??????
Another question I have is the letters that have been sent to FD sofar have been from my and the hubby as it's a joint account - whats the facility for the moneyclaim - to me it looks like a single individual only. If it's a joint account does it have to have a claim from both parties???
One last one - have many had their FD accounts compulsory closed after all of these claims? If so, at what stage does this happen. I have to say that other thans the naughty over the top charges (like most banks) I've been really happy with their service (shrug)
Thanks in nervous anticipation x

[HSBCrusher]

No probs with a joint account, mine is, I have had no problems.
Some have not waited the 14 days, but I feel waiting the full time shows you to be reasonable. Unlike the bank.
As for account closures, this is very rare, and even more so for the HSBC group as far as I can gather. Best to open a parchute account though, just in case.

Try not to be nervous, it's you that has got the bank on the run....

Crusher