GriffinGrumbler v HSBC - SETTLED IN FULL

[GriffinGrumbler]

Hello everyone - great forum.

I've had a good trawl of all the FAQs and the posts, and have been angry for some time about the charges that HSBC has been whacking onto my account for some time now.

Ironically, I am in a professional industry (working with retail bank's Debt Collection departments would you believe) and get paid pretty well, but each month I go over my overdraft by a hundred quid or so. To make matters worse, I always get paid 2 days after the charges go out, so it has a knock on effect each month.

I opened my account in 1997, and initially got charged £27.50 for each month that I exceeded my overdraft. They changed the rules about 3 years ago and started charging £18 each time you went over up to a maximum of £72. Recently, as you all will know, they changed this again to be £20 up to a maximum of £100 per month - a big increase from the original position.

I have used the spreadsheet and calculated that over the last 6 years, HSBC have charged me £3401.50 in total, the vast majority of which comes from unauthorised overdraft fees.

With the 8% APR that can be applied once filed for litigation, this claim increases by £707.49 to £4108.99.

I already have a First Direct account that I can use as a parachute if needs be, and I am keenly watching what happens to everyone else. I have a mortgage and a loan with HSBC which I have always operated correctly and paid on time, and my overdraft is £1250, which the settlement would pay off, so I have no worries about them calling that in should I win.

My only worry before I take the plunge is that having read nearly every post in this forum I can't find out how many people have won and what the repercussions are -

Does the settlement agreement offered include account closure?
Do other products with the bank remain unaffected?

I can see that most people have been gagged by a confidentiality agreement, which is probably designed to stop this thing gaining momentum with stories of wins, so I could probably just do with a bit of encouragement before I take the plunge - could any winners give me a bit of insight please?

Ta

[Bookworm]

Welcome.

Glad to see you've already done what we ask of all newcomers: know what you're doing.

I think it's very sweet of you to think the lack of comeback is due to confidentiality agreements. I'm more cynical and think people can't be bothered telling us once they have their money back.

ANYWAY...

The short answer to the closure question is: Toss a coin.
Some do, some don't. Halifax is now threatening closure when repaying "if you do it again" (whether they mean incurring charges or suing tem is unclear, lol) to everyone. Even within the one bank, you can't guarantee what they'll do...

Other products, so far, I can't think of anyone who has had that problem, and to be honest, I think they would have to be wary of something like this. Besides, as long as you don't give them cause to, other products will keep on generating income for them, so it wouldn't make sense. The general consensus is they can't touch mortgages, which is a different kind of borrowing.

Keep on reading, there are plenty of success stories, they will encourage you.

[GriffinGrumbler]

Thanks Bookworm - the encouragement is appreciated.

At a time when banks are driving down their cost base (outsourcing to India for example) it is hard to see why their "charges for banking services" (according to my last statement) have risen nearly 4 fold in the last 3 years - why does it now 'cost' them £100 a month to manage my indiscretions when it used to 'cost' £27.50, particularly with it being completely automated?

The more I think about it the more angry I get about being taken for a mug - I don't have a problem with being charged higher interest on unauthorised borrowing, but I shouldn't incur a fee for a non-existent service.

Time to stop ranting and draft my first letter. My next statement should come any day now which will doubtless increase my claim by another £100.

[LouizeM]

I was also so concerned about closure of my Halifx account, Ive cleared off my relatively low overdraft just in case, so it would just be a matter of moving some DD's over to a new account. Ive been with the Hfx for 16 years now, you'd think they'd treat me nicer!!

Shame people aren't informing when they get their dosh though. Its these stats we need to know, to ensure the forum is up to date with its tactics!

Anyway, Good luck with your application. What ive learned is you have to follow the instructions EXACTLY as stated even when you feel that the way its written isnt your personal style, as what appears to be one minor change to you, may actually significiantly hinder the process!!

Since its for £3.5k, I'd be very interested to see what happens - theyve been a bit "cocky" with their responses to me (in my opinion anyway). And I had to force myself not to write to highlight their numerous spelling mistakes and poor grammer

[GriffinGrumbler]

Thanks Louize -

I had a chat with the wife this afternoon and she is more enthusiastic than me!

The only downside I can see is that if I have to move my account i will lose the 'kudos' of having an account with the same bank for 10 years in answer to the standard credit application question "how long have you been with your current bank", but I'm not really bothered to tell you the truth.

I am also watching the higher claims carefully, but I intend to send off my prelim tomorrow nonetheless.

[GriffinGrumbler]

Have submitted my MoneyClaim today for about £4500.

One question though - I understand that I should forward a breakdown of the charges to the court and to the bank to support my claim, and I also want to send a covering letter to the bank stating that I am starting a claim because they haven't provided a satisfactory response in the time available, to prevent any arguments to get a judgement set aside because the bank didn't have time to prepare a defence, but:

I have read some conflicting posts about this. Some say not to tell the bank the claim number or details, others say you have to do it in support of your claim.

Which is right? - or do you only have to send a breakdown when a court is allocated?

And finally (sorry) who do I send it to? Is it our mate Paul Archer in Leeds again?

Thanks in advance - great forum!

[GriffinGrumbler]

Could somebody give me some advice please -

I have a letter ready to post to the HSBC Service Centre in Leeds detailing the breakdown of charges and claim number of the MCOL I have just lodged and am wondering if this is the right thing to do? - I know in the past people have not taken this step.

Thanks.

[chrisdodd]

Sorry, I'm new to all of this, so can't really help.

Just wanted to wish you luck!

Chris

[GriffinGrumbler]

Thanks Chris! Anyone else got any ideas?

[overcharged_consumer]

Hi GG,

I had considered doing so in order to prevent them from claiming they never received the claim documents. I posted the question as to whether or not I should but never got a response and decided against sending it.

OC

[Spiceskull]

Hi all,

Particularised claims - banks have a new delaying tactic, and it is that they complain about not knowing what the charges are for that are referred to in the claim. Therefore, and to deny them any opportunities to procrastinate, it is prudent to provide a breakdown of the charges on the day you raise your claim.

This isn't compulsory, but at some stage you will need to do so, and therefore it is best to do it at your earliest opportunity. At a set-aside hearing last week, the bank's solicitor complained that they did not know what the chrges referred to, and the judge actually showed them the claim form, with the detailed schedule attached. Needless to say the judge was not impressed with the solicitor...

If you raise a claim in person, then you can give a couple of copies of your schedule to the court secretary. He/she will attach them to your forms, and ensure that both the court and the bank have copies.

If you use MCOL, I understand there is a "ticky" box that permits "documents to follow by post" - tick the box and send the details in,

Apart from a list of the charges (and what they are for) the schedule should include a breakdown of the s.69 interest you are claiming, your name, the bank's name, claim number, your account details and the period you are claiming from (e.g. June 2000 - June 2006)

If this is not clear then I will monitor this thread and pick up further questions later.

[maverik1979]

hmm, ive been reading this in the last couple of days, can we get the faq's updated to reflect this?

[Spiceskull]

Originally Posted by GriffinGrumbler

At a time when banks are driving down their cost base (outsourcing to India for example) it is hard to see why their "charges for banking services" (according to my last statement) have risen nearly 4 fold in the last 3 years - why does it now 'cost' them £100 a month to manage my indiscretions when it used to 'cost' £27.50, particularly with it being completely automated?

It is exactly that argument that causes us all to be here...

Originally Posted by GriffinGrumbler

I have read some conflicting posts about this. Some say not to tell the bank the claim number or details, others say you have to do it in support of your claim.

A new tactic of the banks is to say that the claim has not been particularised. They then bleat that they cannot defend the claim because they are unaware of what the claim consists of.

You are under no obligation to provide a schedule at this point, but will be required to do so if the claim actually reaches court. Therefore it is a prudent move to send a copy to the bank and to the court. If you send it by recorded delivery you will have proof of posting.

A simple cover letter will do, as long as you identify the following:

• Your name
• Bank name
• Claim number
• Period of claim (e.g. June 2000 to June 2006)

Good luck.

[GriffinGrumbler]

Thanks all - I've sent a copy to Paul Archer and one to the courts as an addendum today.

[GriffinGrumbler]

Claim acknowledged today.

[Spiceskull]

Great news - keep it up.

To see the steps I took to recover unfair bank charges with the help of Consumer Action Group, please read my thread Spiceskull v HSBC.