HSBC Managed Loan

[desperate77]

Hi, this is my first post ....i hope ive put it in the right place !!

Okay, i have issues with HSBC.

I needed a little help in December 2006 which HSBC refused. By a little help I just mean a slight increase in my overdraft as money I had been expecting did not surface plunging my three children (including one newborn) into a potential xmas hell. I only wanted a temporary increase and my problems would have been cleared up by the latest end of January 2007.

The best they could offer was to revoke my cheque book, guarantee card and credit card - putting everything into one 'affordable' monthly payment etc, etc, etc - in other words one of their 'Managed Loans'.

I refused this without even hearing anything about it as at the time this was just a temporary cash flow problem and thought their suggestion of doing this over such a small thing was ludicrous.

However, in their wisdom HSBC decided they were going to bounce everything they could, apply charges to my account - sometimes twice for things re-presented etc leaving my children and I with nothing to live on.

After doing a bit of research I swiftly cancelled all direct debits from my account and made alternative arrangements by way of opening a new account elsewhere in order that we were not left penniless and unable to live.

I then started an uphill struggle with HSBC which has been ongoing for 6+ months now.

I firstly contacted HSBC and asked them politely that in view of the circumstances if they could stop all the charges (for being over my overdraft, interest charges etc) in order that I may bring my account back into credit (which would have taken me at maximum 2 months).

They took weeks to reply to my letters, by which time further charges had been applied. I had a few months of this until I sent them a letter requesting they repay all my charges using a letter template i had found on a helpful website.

Eventually all charges were refunded to the account but this left me still slightly over the overdraft and I was terrified that they would just keep putting the charges on.

In amongst the letters I feolt I had no alternative but to ask for details on a Managed Loan as I felt this was the only way out - they took months to reply to my requests but eventually sent me the requested details.

To my horror I saw that the rate of interest they were charging was 13%!!! This would mean that I would be paying the Managed Loan off until 2019!!!

I wrote back and told them in no uncertain terms that I would not be paying that rate of interest and suggested they review it and make me a better offer.

I was then contacted again and offered a loan of £2370 - this amount includes my overdraft, personal loan and credit card - with an interest rate of 6.7%.

The letter set out what I would be paying etc and the repayments were reduced to approximately £25 a month for me as I knew i could afford that without much of a problem.

However, in principal I accepted this by way of a letter and asked for the Managed Loans to be sent to me. On receipt of the Managed Loan forms the interest rate stated 13%. There were two accompanying letters, one stating they were sorry I was unable to keep up to my loan payments of £36 a month and one stating that in view of the fact that I was unable to keep up to these payments an following our telehphone conversations (of which there have been none because I refuse to speak to call centre staff in wherever they are, that repeat the same lines again and again and have no concept of the situation) - and say that in view of the circumstances they will lower the interest rate to 6.7% and my monthly repayments to just less than £25.

I have kept sending the Managed Loan forms back (approximately three times now) circling the interest rate of 13% and requesting a Managed Loan agreement stating the agreed interest rate of 6.7% and each time they have just sent exactly the same Managed Loan forms changing the date alone and the same two letters again only changing the dates.

It has been so infuriating.

I finally received a letter yesterday stating "Taking into account your current circumstances and as a concession to you and without formally varying the terms of your loan agreement, HSBC Bank are prepared to agree a lower interest rate. Therefore, your loan agreement forms will quote an interest rate of 7% (what she actually meant there I think was 7% above the Bank of England base rate) and a concession letter will confirm any reduced interest rate agreed".

I am still not happy - am I being stupid?

I do not think that a concession letter stating that "in view of my circumstances" they will charge an interest rate of 6.7%, holds much weight and they could revoke it at any time. By signing an agreement I am locking myself into it until 2019!!!! (My 7 month old son will have grown up and may have left home by then!!!)

And also its not like the interest rate is fixed - they say that they usually charge is 7% above the Bank of England base rate which is currently 5.5%, giving an APR of 13.3%.

Any suggestions would be gratefully received as I have had enough. I have three young children age 6, 4 and 7 months, the eldest I home educate and I am a lone parent and to be frank I havent time to play ping pong by way of letter with HSBC who it seems to me are in are a law unto themselves.

Thanks for taking the time to read my post.

[hsbcfiddled]

Do not what ever you do enter into a managed loan unless the interest rate is zero %. There are many people on the CAG who have had extreme hardship due to these managed loans myself included.

hsbcfiddled

[desperate77]

Thankyou for your reply.

Any suggestions on how to say stick your 13.3% and your 6.7% and gimme 0%???!!! Especially seeing as I said in a letter ok to 6.7% but at no point signed loan agreement forms.

My letters to HSBC to date have got snottier and snottier and they probably wonder who on earth i think i am !!!!

[hsbcfiddled]

Someone will come along shortly who can give you the correct advice I dont feel confident enough to give my views on what you should do.
I can only say that I would not have entered into an agreement for a managed loan had I known then what I know now.

There are some very good people on here and one of them will pick up your thread soon and if they dont you can 'Bump' your thread and I will if you havent had a response.

hsbcfiddled

[desperate77]

Thank you

[Castlebest]

Hiya Desperate, I know very little about managed loans but I know they can do great damage to your finances.

Have you contacted the Citizens Advice people?, im sure they have... or are in contact with financial experts who can look at your personal circumstances and advise you the best way forward from an independant point of view.

pete

[arthurdent]

This is incredible; 2 years later I see that (finally) I am not alone.

Just over 2 and a half years ago I walked into HSBC and accepted a Managed Loan on the advice of the manager (Beckenham Branch. Mr Reay). I can in no uncertain terms state here (and scream at them...) that he has completely and utterly destroyed my life.

How can a person with NO prior negative credit history (in fact, less than one month before my credit card had gone UP £500).

I had never received a letter from the bank (ever) asking for a missed payment.

No missed payments on my mortgage - also with HSBC

Nothing...... I mean NOTHING wrong at all with my accounts (1 CCard/Current Account/Mortgage/Overdraft of £500/Personal Loan of £6000.)

I took it because I essentially was worried about (possibly) missing my 1st payment on my mortgage. He assured me it was the only way as we already had a personal loan of £6000.= which was being paid off regularly, never missed a payment.

I was a normal customer. It took about a month or 2 for the severity of the managed loan to really kick in - but when it did, I started to ask questions, and I kept asking...For over 2 years I have listened to staff at HSBC tell me repeatedly that they would only use a Managed Loan as a (and I quote) "Last Resort".

It has genuinely taken me 2 years to gather myself and start to approach this situation with a clear head. HSBC could not offer me all the money in the world to resolve this as I cannot put a price on the sheer hell it has been for myself and my wife coping with one mans utterly malicious actions.

I have followed through with a complaint directly to HSBC and that resulted in the managers work colleague calling me up and trying to talk me me out of persuing the matter.

Next to me, as I type, I have:

a) My credit history printed out covering me for the last 3 years. It shows my credit as completely normal prior to the managed loan. This I am hoping will be the conclusive proof that will solve the matter.

b) My complaints form to the banking Ombudsman.

c) A letter Mr Reay wrote himself where he indicates that he apologised (at the time) for 'forgetting' to pay my mortgage just a couple of days before we accepted the managed loan.

What actually happened (noticing online that I was £1000 in debt - this was the day AFTER I had signed for the managed loan) I called him and asked him what was going on? He had clearly failed to mention this the day before when my wife and I were in his office. He immediately admtted the error but he did not apologise, in fact (and I quote) the next thing he said was;

"I'm sorry Mr B_____y, you are aware I cannot offer you anymore credit or lend you anymore money".

At that point I alerted him to the fact that nobody in their right mind would walk into a bank - take out a loan that cuts them off from ANY lending, only to find themselves £1000 in debt the next day - that they cannot pay.

He wouldn't budge.

I called back (walking down the Old Kent Road, London)- and I outlined the situation to him again......and again.....and again. It took him 45 minutes to finally relent and increase the Managed Loan by £1000 to cover his error.

He never apologised; In fact, based on that conversation/set of incidents, I would testify in a court of law that he would have been quite happy to have watched my wife and I starve to death in abject poverty.

About a month ago I went to see a mortgage advisor at the same branch and when I mentioned his (Mr. Reay's) name his eyes lit up. "Do you know him?" I asked. "No!..no...he's gone from here - he's moved to another branch". When I explained what Mr Reay had done to me this guy was practically scrambling off of his seat insisting he get me Mr Reay's contact information and that I file a complaint. I relented because, as I have mentioned, I have been through the ropes with HSBC with this one - Their policy is a very, very simple (retarded) one:

If you make a complaint against an individual - the 'independent' team will then lodge your complaint noting everything you say. All of YOUR complaint is then forwarded to the person who you are complaining against (genius!) - the 'independent' team then tell the person to 'deal with it' - That person (the one you are complaining about) then calls up their colleague in the room next door and that is the person who will contact you. He/She will then try and sweet-talk you out of doing anything....or (as in my case) just bore you to death with banking jargon so much so that you will just give up in despair, prefering to watch paint dry as a more uplifting alternative.

You need to do it though; The Banking Ombudsman form specifically requests the 'everything is resolved (as far as we are concernced)' letter from your bank regarding your complaint.

The letter I am about to post in about 10 minutes contains this letter, the letter where Mr Reay alleges to have 'helped' me fix the problem he created - and my credit history before and after.

The thing is; as mentioned before - this is now not about money - I really cannot put a price on the misery this man has caused. I don't know where this will go but I am not going to let this man destroy other peoples lives like he has ours. This really is my driving force because I am sure he has done this to others...

I will keep you updated.

[desperate77]

Thank you so much for your reply 'arthurdent' - I know how much of a relief it is to find others in a similar position - it kinda makes it feel like its not so much a consiracy to ruin just your own life but those of other poor buggers too.

Words fail me they really do and at this point in time the response i want to send back to them within their requested 7 days is certainly not their managed loan agreement form with my signature (at a rate of 13%!!!) but a letter telling them to shove it and do their worst.

You woudnt think we were only talking about £2300 would you......if i could afford to do the lottery twice a week i would, in the hopes of winning enough money to pay them back as the prospect of having them hanging like a noose round mine and my childrens necks until 2019 terrifies me.......

[lateralus]

hi guys,
i don't know a lot about m.l. except that they are total cxxp!
my son has one - still paying even after putting his 2k of reclaimed charges on it - it still goes on and on....

a couple of thoughts - nothing monumental - just hoping to help in some small way......
this is a thread about how they can't use your benefit (i think including child benefit) to their own advantage -
Right of Appropriation - Stop the bank from taking your money

and this thread is just a useful one i found one day which may give you some more tips about things:
Taking back control of your finances

now, if knowing that others are in the same predicament makes you feel better then prepare to feel great! (sorry about the sarcasm - couldn't resist) settle back with a cup of cocoa and start on this:
Who has had Managed Loans? an old hsbc favourite. and if you want more - put managed loans on the search along the blue strip above and just dive in.
it is truly remarkable how a reputedly well respected bank (oxymoron) can treat it's customers like this.

my advise to one and all - if you are offered a managed loan - run for the hills - like drugs - just say no. if you are already in their clutches.....
well, i can only say you have my every sympathy.

now, on a brighter note - are you claiming charges back from the bank - i suggest you read this thread - it is the only one i know of where the reclaimed bank charges also added the managed loan and got a result - read it and see if it helps
Husband v HSBC - Paid ( 1 2 3)

also, i asked bong (a very clever lady who has left the building) her thoughts on reclaiming the interest on the managed loan if it was bank charges that put you in the position of having to take it out -
our exchange can be found starting on page 5/post 100 and going on for a couple of posts on this thread: Bong v HSBC *Contractual Interest & 13yr claim**WON!!!**(1 Viewing) ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page)

i wish i had a magic wand and could make these loans go away - hopefully some of this will help......
my very good wishes to both of you and all with the dreaded m.l.

[desperate77]

Thanks for your helpful reply' lateralus'.

When all the problems with HSBC first started I managed to get the DWP to pay my benefits into my Post Office card a/c almost immediately so that HSBC couldnt swallow up any more of my money to pay for the unlawful charges they added to my account.

I then followed some advice i'd seen on the tv and opened another bank account - no frills - just a basic bank account with a debit card. I have managed to remain in FULL control of this account for the last 6 months and use their online banking facility to check on my account every day religiously - some may say im obsessed!!!!!! Paranoid more like!!!!!!!!

I managed to reclaim approximately £500 worth of charges back which was fairly straightforward and took my outstanding balance down a great deal although i was still over my slightly over overdraft as i had stopped all monies being paid in in protest at their appalling treatment of me.

All charges for being over my overdraft were also stopped and the only thing I have been charged for since is for each time they have tried to collect my personal loan - I did try on many occasions to pay my personal loan payments but have been told that the only way they can collect the loan payments is through my current account yet if i paid the money for the loan into the current account it would be swallowed up as im overdrawn and the loan payment would go through, then be reversed and id be charged £25!!!!!!!

I was so angry after reading through everything i could find on theis site about HSBC's Managed Loans and what they had put people through that I have replied to the latest letter from HSBC (which told me that although i would be signing a Managed Loan agreement loan that stated 13%, the concession letter stated 6.7% so thats the rate I would be charged).

I basically wrote that under no circumstances would I be signing any agreement that stated 13% with or without a 'concession' letter. I told them that it was as a result of their refusal to assist me over what was essentially a temporary blip that caused a far worse situation and instead of giving me the assistance i requested, they straight away offered me a Managed Loan, something which imho should have been offered as a last resort.

In the end the situation was made so severe as they refused to help that I had no alternative but to say send me the details for the Managed Loan at which point i discovered the horrendous rate of interest and the fact that i would be paying it back until at least 2019(!!!!!!!) and i have been playing letter ping pong with them ever since.

I have told them that I know that I am not the only one they have seen fit to try and extort thousands of pounds in interest from and that after much research i am not prepared to sign myself and my children into something that will in all probability be a noose round our necks as I am a lone parent on a limited income consisting of benefits (i have an injury that means I am unable to work at present and am awaiting an appointment with a neurosurgeon in August). I have no help from my ex-partner and my children rely on me.

Life is difficult financially at present obviously and I just cant sign up to a ML.

I have informed them that I am fully prepared to pay back the combined amount of £2500 (this include my overdraft, HSBC C/C & personal loan) but this is the ONLy amount i am prepared to pay and I will make 125 payments of £20 on the first day of each month to pay this amount.

I finished off by saying that if they didnt accept it then i would have no alternative but to consider bankruptcy......

Ive no idea what they will say to this but hopefully they will see sense as we are talking about the sum of £2500 here - a mere drop in the ocean in comparison to what most people owe.

[ScarletPimpernel]

Originally Posted by arthurdent

If you make a complaint against an individual - the 'independent' team will then lodge your complaint noting everything you say. All of YOUR complaint is then forwarded to the person who you are complaining against (genius!) - the 'independent' team then tell the person to 'deal with it' - That person (the one you are complaining about) then calls up their colleague in the room next door and that is the person who will contact you. He/She will then try and sweet-talk you out of doing anything....or (as in my case) just bore you to death with banking jargon so much so that you will just give up in despair, prefering to watch paint dry as a more uplifting alternative.

I asked HSBC for a temporary and fairly small increase in overdraft to cover what I subsequently discovered to be unauthorised withdrawals from my account (identity theft - not that HSBC are interested).

Subsequently they reduced the limit on my credit card to a figure below the outstanding balance, and started demanding immediate repayment! When I complained, they waffled at me and claimed I'd agreed to it in the branch. They sent a letter stating that I'd been informed and had agreed, but that as a goodwill gesture they'd change the limit to the outstanding balance.

A Subject Access Request later, however, and I find their notes, which show that in fact the limit reduction followed 'an error by XXXXXX at the branch', and documenting the phone call and letter as placatory. However, the Subject Access Request also showed that they don't have an agreement for the card, so it's bounced back to bite them.

After HSBC started selectively bouncing payments, and charging me for 'informal overdraft requests', I've also now opened a new account.

[hsbcfiddled]

For Desperate77 the message is clear.....dont sign.

For everyone who has signed there maybe a loophole...read on.

14th June 2006, 16:20 #1 (permalink) baconbuttyman vbmenu_register("postmenu _83230", true);
Classic Account Customer



Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: cleveleys
Posts: 193



Loan Company Cannot Supply The Original Agreement


It is a massive thread but well worth the read.

What it boils down to is .....if the loan company or bank cannot produce upon request a TRUE copy of the EXECUTED agreement for the fee of £1 within 12 working days then there is no need to make any further payments and then one calender month after that if it still hasnt been produced the debt is unenforceable. (12 working days + 1 calender month with no show = free)

If you move then onto page 131 here is an example.

You will be amazed at how many of these agreements are not coming out into the sunlight.

For my part the 'worlds listening bank' have so far failed to hear or read or reply to my request (good) and the 12 days expired on the 26th June (even better) so I am still hoping that the situation will be the same by 26th July.. (Clasps hands together in prayer) and then they can shove it where the sun dont shine.

THERE IS HOPE FOR US ALL

[desperate77]

Many thanks for all your useful tips and pointers and as per everyones say so i will definitely NOT be signing.

In fact, I have contacted them today by way of letter and told them exactly that - i will not be signing myself and my family into a managed loan and i am more than happy to pay back the £2500 currently owing to them but that is all. I made them an offer and told them if they dont accept then i will be seeking further legal advise and bankruptcy will be highly likely be the route i take as i have no worries at all about being unable to obtain credit.

I'll let you know if/when i receive a response but it usually takes 2-3 weeks despite my sending the letters to them first class recorded delivery.

Thanks again everyone for your advice.

[arthurdent]

My documents have all been posted today. 2 and a half years later, maybe there will be some light in this very dark tunnel.

I will report back here as soon as I get a response and let you know how it's going.

Thanks to all the other posters for some great feedback, no matter how depressing the actual situation really is.

Anyone reading this who might be considering getting a 'Managed Loan' or has been offered one - Please, don't do it. Bank Managers are sly dogs of the same ilk as a used car salesman. No matter how smooth it may all appear, their job is to get you into debt and peddle their poor deals, plain and simple. They like us that way, for some twisted reason.