Cruise from hell

[martin2006]

i originally posted this in the wrong forum so hopefully now its right.

Hello all and thanks for great advice in other forums.

We recently went on a cruise with OV.During the holiday my 12 year old autistic son was assaulted by another lad. made a complaint to security and was told it would take 48 hrs to investigate and we would be told of outcome in due course. while they investigated this the same lad had got involved with some other lads and were basically terrorising the ship. i.e. ripped out seats in cinema, threw deck bins overboard while ship was sailing, destroyed gym equipment,laid broken glass down stairwell etc etc.
Had a meet with management who said they had "had a word" with them and warned them about future conduct (thrown off ship if any more bad behaviour)
the group carried on causing mayhem and more complaints were made by other people equally as fed up as us, but nothing further was done.
On the last night of our stay my wife was assaulted by a member of the original lads family and all hell broke loose. The girl who attacked my wife from behind was 13 yrs old, in the nightclub. The lad who attacked my son earlier in the week, who was only 11 was also in the nightclub. It was around 2.30am.
The head of security came to interview my wife at 8 am the next morning and then apologised to her for having our cruise ruined and also said that they should have been disembarked after my son was assaulted, then the other incidents would not have happened including the assault on my wife.
We made a written complaint to OV the day after returning home, who, in reply have said they did all possible and cannot be held responsible. I disagree and have written back asking them to prove that they did all possible and am waiting reply. Does anybody have any thoughts as to whether i have a case for them to answer or do i put it down to experience and let it go?
I can e-mail all current correspondence if necessary as it may be libelious to post it here

[Bookworm]

Well, I sure as hell would NOT let it go at that, no. It's an absolute disgrace and I would hound them until I had more appropriate answers and a fair amount of compensation too.

Top of my head, I would query what exactly are the guidelines for security on the ship? What is procedure? Why weren't the disruptive families disembarked after 1st incident?

Yes, I'd like to see the correspondence: research@bankactiongroup. co.uk, if you please, and I'll get back to you on this thread as soon as I can.

[callumsgran]

Hi, sorry to hear of your misfortune on your cruise! i was watching a programme on this the other night and it said that once you leave a port you are no longer covered by 'any' laws at all! people have been 'lost' overboard and allsorts and there is no comeback on the ship and their crews unfortunately. having said that i really hope your outcome is different, good luck!

[martin2006]

thanks for fast response peeps. ive asked all those questions and im awaiting reply. in the meantime ill e-mail what i have so far.its all dated stuff so you should be able to get it in the right order. Ive also spoken briefly to ABTA who didnt seem that interested but then i havent put it in writing to them. I too saw that cruise uncovered last monday i think and couldnt believe some of what goes on.

[callumsgran]

I know i was so shocked!!! hard to believe that it goes on isnt it? best of luck to you martin x

[martin2006]

Thanks cillit.
Sorry its taken a while to e-mail Bookworm but ive had to retype all OV responses into a separate folder cause it was too big to send after scanning them in. Just to clarify we made two complaints. one has been resolved so some of what you will read is irrelevant. Will be intersting to hear someone elses opinion. When weve spoke to various people they all say we should sue them but not too sure yet.

[mailmannz]

What has been resolved?

Mailman

[martin2006]

hi mailmannz.
In addition to the first post i made we were overcharged on our on board account to the tune of £383.00. basically they pre authorise what u spend on any given day with your bank but dont actually take the payment till u settle at the end of your cruise. in our case they did it twice and resulted in overcharging causing my bank account to be 383.00 down. They never actually took the money but coz it was pre authofised it takes 10 days to clear itself and come back into your bank. The upshot being this resulted in insufficient funds to pay mortgage and i was charged by both bank and mortgage co.
They paid my charges and that was that

[Bookworm]

e-mail received. I'll get back to you asap.

[martin2006]

Thx Bookworm.....would love to have a second opinion

[martin2006]

Well i gave them 10 days from 25th july and as yet ive heard nothing from them.

Will be drafting a letter to ABTA on monday, lets see if they can get a decent response from OV.

Have you had a chance to look through the E-mail yet Bookie? I know your very busy and i really appreciate it.

[Bookworm]

Sorry it took me so long to reply, I've only tonight been able to read your e-mail. Pathetic, I know.

Mhhh... Well, they sure don't seem to care about losing custom, are they? You make a serious complaint and their reply is to take it to their legal dept to make sure they cover themselves. Nice.

"the behavioural problem of children can be a headache". No. When it results in assault on a disabled child (or anyone for that matter), it's more than a "headache".

They state that they "go to considerable lengths to try and prevent children from annoying other passengers". How so?

I could pick their letter to bits and not find one appropriate response there. It's a lot of fluff whipped into a 1 page letter, with no substance, and the only part of significance is the "our legal dept says", which clearly shows where their one and only interest lies.

They are saying they can not be held liable for the altercation. I can, up to a point, accept that statement. Strictly speaking, of course, they can't be held liable. However, what they should be made accountable for is how such children were allowed in a presumably adults only nightclub?

Do you still have the T&Cs of your booking? IMO, you bought a cruise, and the implied terms of that cruise are that you should be able to enjoy it in safety. It doesn't have to say so on the T&Cs, because it goes without saying, literally.
I think the angle you want to go for is this: By allowing the trouble-makers to carry on, they breached the implied terms of your booking, even though they had the resources to do so. It was up to them to enforce those terms, and they failed to do so. they themselves admit that clause 31 allows them to take such action, and yet, they failed to apply it. Since they breached the terms of the contract, you should be reimbursed, as you didn't get what you paid for.

You have tried to talk to them on a customer complaint basis, and they have responded with their legal team's opinion. Maybe now you should try the contractual obligation angle, and see what their response is to that.

I personally think that you are being far too nice to them, and that your next letter needs to be a lot more bang-fist-on-table.

[martin2006]

Its just a lot of air isnt it? I greatly appreciate your views and i will now be banging-fist-on-table(love the expression). Will check out T&C and post back ASAP

[martin2006]

OK i had a look through T&Cs and ive come up with this to send next.
What do you think?
On 25-07-2006, I wrote to you asking for satisfactory responses to a complaint made on 1st-June-2006. I also gave you 10 days in which to respond as all the relevant information should be to hand since your investigation has now been completed.
YOU HAVE FAILED TO RESPOND.
It goes without saying that my family and I should have been able to enjoy the cruise in safety and comfort as per the implied terms.
YOU HAVE FAILED TO PROVIDE THIS.
I should point out the following:
BOOKING CONDITION 3.
All passengers agree to be bound by the terms of the contract. As it does not state otherwise, I must conclude that this also applies to children.
After the events which we endured, Clause 31 should have been invoked.
BOOKING CONDITION 5.
All passengers under the age of 18 MUST be accompanied by a passenger over 21 who at ALL times is responsible for their conduct and behaviour.
The child who assaulted my son was in your bayside nightclub, alone, at 2.30 am.
BOOKING CONDITION 31.
ALL passengers are required to conduct themselves in a proper manner, with due regard to the HEALTH, SAFETY, COMFORT, ENJOYMENT and GENERAL WELL BEING of ALL persons on board.
As it does not state otherwise, I must conclude this also applies to children.
YOU HAVE FAILED TO PROVIDE THIS. These people should have been disembarked.
I would at this point demand that you immediately refund the sum of £4212.00, which reflects the amount paid for this holiday, as you have failed to abide by your own terms and conditions.
This is a Letter Before Action, with which, you have 14 days to comply. If you do not comply, I shall, without any further warning issue court proceedings, upon which you will also become liable for all costs and interest @ 8%.

[Bookworm]

Very nice. Are you actually prepared to go ahead with a small claims court if they fail to respond? IMO, it's a no-brainer, £120 you may lose if you lose case against up to 4k + potentially to be recovered, but it's not as clear cut as with bank charges.... You have to consider as well that even a win in court might not end up with 100% refund, as a judge could take the view that you did in fact enjoy part of the holiday...
What kind of evidence do you have? Do you have a police report? Other witnesses to the incidents? Photos, maybe? All these would be useful.

[martin2006]

The only reports are those made on board as the police only became involved after we returned home. There are at least three witnessess who we are in regular contact with, possibly more if Ocean Village would give me what i asked for. Can i Data Protection Act S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) them for it? I also Know that the parents were fined £7000 for the damage these kids did.
If i dont take them court what other action can i take?