haven holidays disability issue **SORTED**

[voyager9]

hi every one
at easter we booked to go to thorpe park on a touring pitch ,we have a child in a wheelchair and because all he can really take part in we always phone sites direct to check accessability.

we phoned thorpe park (CARAVAN PARK WHICH IS A HAVEN SITE) on 5th march and asked about accessability in the swimming pool and was told he would be fully catered for so we booked and paid in full,also in the brochure they were advertising a new swimming complex.

when we arived everything was fine, we checked in didnt get told anythingabout any problems.

then half way through holiday we decided to take our son swimming ,when we got to the pool we asked where the disabled changing was and was told there wasnt any. i said what do you mean and was told they had been removed due to the ongoing construction work on the new swimming complex. i didnt even know the new complex wasnt open yet,we hadnt been told anything on arrival.

we went to reception and they confirmed there were none and after expressing our dissactisfaction all they could come up with was changing my son in a office.

so went back to van and phoned haven direct who told us to stay on site and try to come to a satisfactory remedy with the park as they can only get involved once we are home.

so to some it up they had two oppurtunitys to tell us that the complex wasnt finished and there were no facilities for disabled at the old pool.
at the time of booking and on arrival.

complained when we got home and was offered a third of the cost, due to us remaining on site and using entertainment , have today fired a 2nd letter off but have headed it has a letter before action . i believe they are in breach of contract and breach of the disability discrimination act .below is the letter i have sent, in it gives the rough points of my dispute and argument can anyone have a look and advise am i right or barking up wrong tree.

[voyager9]

LETTER BEFORE ACTION

Our reference:
Your reference:

Dear

I acknowledge your letter dated 17th April 2008.

Firstly I would like to inform that I am still very dissatisfied with your response.

You stated that the disabled changing rooms were removed during the construction in error and therefore not discrimination. Whether a facility is withdrawn through error or on purpose has no relevance, having no facilities for the disabled whilst keeping the facilities for able bodied people is a violation of the disability discrimination act, no matter what the reasons are.

I would also like to remind you that all points covered in the “holiday and booking information” and “booking guide” form part of the “conditions of booking” which in turn forms a binding contract between parties.

Secondly you seem to be using the fact that we remained on site for the duration of the holiday against us in your decision on the amount of refund given.

In the holiday and booking information which forms part of said contract, under disabled guests it states:

“Honest advice. We will provide honest and accurate advice – for example, which parks are only suitable for some disabled guests and where wheelchair access is limited.”

As stated in my initial letter of complaint after asking thorpe park direct about disable facilities at the swimming pool I was told that my son would be fully catered for, when in fact he wasn’t because the disabled changing rooms had been removed. And because this fact was known at Thorpe Park it is the first clear breach of contract.

I would like to point out that had we been given honest and accurate advice we would not have booked this holiday and subsequently entered into a contract with you.

Also in your “conditions of booking” which also forms part of said contract, it states:

“If we change or cancel your booking. As an experienced and responsible operator, our aim is to provide all the services, facilities and entertainment as described in our brochure. Should it be necessary for us to make any major changes to your booking, or in exceptional circumstances cancel your booking, we will endeavour to advise you and provide you with the following options:
a) A replacement holiday comparable or superior to the one booked or
b) A replacement holiday together with the difference in price between the replacement holiday and the holiday booked or
c) A full refund
in addition to the above and provided it does not arise from circumstances beyond our control, we will also pay you compensation for any provable loss.”

Please not the above wording which clearly includes services, facilities and entertainment.
The withdrawal of disabled facilities constitutes a major change as does the non completion of an advertised swimming complex.
Also when we arrived at the site and checked in, your park had a further opportunity to advise us and provide us with the options stated above which is what you state you will do in the contract, this is the second clear breach of contract.

Had we been informed of the changes to the services, facilities and entertainment upon arrival and been offered any one of the options you state you will offer, we would not have remained on site.

Also we were advised during the phone call to Danny at your head office to stay for the remainder of the holiday in order to try to reach a satisfactory outcome with the park.

Also in the contract between ourselves its states under the conditions of booking

“If you cut your holiday short we are not obliged to offer a refund”

Therefore if we had left the site early we would have been breaching our contract with you and we had no choice but to remain on site.

During my husbands phone call with ########## it was implied that because we chose not to use the said facilities until half way through the holiday that we was at fault, please point me in the place in our contract which states the customer must use facilities immediately upon arrival.
No matter when we decided to use the facilities in question it does not exclude you from complying with your contract and advising us the customer of the changes, it should not be up to the customer to discover these changes.

What I now require

As you are in clear breach of the contract between us I now require you to comply with the terms of the contract between us by providing either:
a) A replacement holiday comparable or superior to the one booked or
b) A replacement holiday together with the difference in price between the replacement holiday and the holiday booked or
c) A full refund
in addition to the above and provided it does not arise from circumstances beyond our control, we will also pay you compensation for any provable loss.”

And also suitable compensation for your breach of the disability discrimination act 2005

If you do not comply with my request within 14 days I will commence legal action for breach of contract and breach of the disability discrimination act 2005 without any further notice.

[voyager9]

hi can anyone with knowledge on dda pop over to thread in holidays and offer any advice thanks

haven holidays disability issue **SORTED**

[Loubychew]

Hi Voyager9,

That has to be one of the best and most well constructed letters to a TO that I have ever seen. Concise, clear and to the point. Also, very factual without personal opinion. Well done you. I'm sure you will get the result you are hoping for.

[old_andrew2007]

Hi voyager9,

I must agree with Loubychew this is an excellent letter.
I'll make a one suggestion if I may that is to click on the triangle to draw attention to your thread by a moderator, or site-helper.
IMHO there is nothing wrong with the letter, BUT someone with legal experience might be able to give some legal case histories to add and thus support your argument.



Regards



Andy

[old_andrew2007]

Hi

Comment posted on your other thred

[Bookworm]

Hmmm...

1) I'm going to go out on a limb here, but I don't believe they're in breach of the DDA.

Under the DDA, it is unlawful for service providers to treat disabled people less favourably than other people for a reason related to their disability. Service providers now have to make 'reasonable adjustments' to the way they deliver their services so that disabled people can use them.

In your case, the fact that they had the facility, but it became unavailable/was removed so the rest of the building work could go on seems to indicate that this is a temporary thing, and that they fully intend to comply with the DDA.
If a shop has a lift installed for disabled customers and the lift breaks down, would it be a breach of the DDA not to have access to disabled customers whilst it is being repaired? I don't think so.

Depending on where the disabled changing facility was in relation to the building work going on, it may well be that they had little choice and I fear your claim would fail on the disability parts.

2) Whilst your contention is that they had opportunities to tell you about the complex not being built or the disabled facilities not being available, I think that the reasonable counter-argument to that would be: "well, didn't you think of asking?" I mean, it is one of the most known things about holiday brochures, they always include things which may be in the process of being built or will be by the time the new season arrives, they print their brochures 12-18 mths ahead, and with a SN child especially, I would have thought that double and treble checking would be essential.

3) The breach of contract is far from being as clear-cut as you seem to think.

our aim is to provide all the services, facilities and entertainment as described in our brochure. Should it be necessary for us to make any major changes to your booking, or in exceptional circumstances cancel your booking, we will endeavour to advise you and provide you with the following options:
a) A replacement holiday comparable or superior to the one booked or
b) A replacement holiday together with the difference in price between the replacement holiday and the holiday booked or
c) A full refund
in addition to the above and provided it does not arise from circumstances beyond our control, we will also pay you compensation for any provable loss.”

"aim" and "endeavour" are get-out clauses. It means they'll try, but can not promise or guarantee.

I also think that you are misinterpreting the above. Their "core" term will be to provide you with a pitch/caravan/whatever it is you booked for X amount of days, with access to Thorpe Park included in the price, I suppose?

I haven't seen their T&Cs in full, but I'll take a bet that somewhere in there, there'll be a "access to amusement park is included, but we take no responsability for their failure to provide xyz, etc..." or words to that effect, which is logical enough, if you think about it, since it isn't under Haven's management.

Furthermore - sorry - reading your post, you seem to indicate that you were contacting Thorpe Park to ask about the facilities, so if any misleading/not up to date info has been given, then it's Thorpe Park which failed to give you that info, not Haven, so I can't see how you are making them responsible for that.

Finally, I do not believe that you are entitled to a full refund or replacement holiday "comparable or superior", as you have indeed had the benefit - albeit reduced - of the holiday and so it may be that what they have already offered is adequate.

On the other hand, I believe in never accepting a first offer, and so I would recommend that you write back saying that their offer is inadequate considering the loss of enjoyment, especially for your disabled son who was effectively deprived of the one thing which he should have been able to access fully, etc etc... and that you would expect an offer to be at least £xxx and see what their response is.

That's just my opinion, and please read my disclaimer on my signature before proceeding whichever way you decide to.

[voyager9]

hi bookworm whilst in a way agree with everything you say,
i woulsd just like to make clearer a couple of points.

the issue of the new complex isnt really our grudge it is the fact that they took away the old disabled changing rooms and basically preventing a disabled person from even using the old pool let alone the new one.

we did check and double check specifically the swimming pool access and changing rooms access before booking because this is the only activity he can take part in. i am sorry but would you have expected these to have been removed from 5th march to 22 march(phoned/booked to when we arrived) ok yes if we had booked 3/4 months in advance yes.

when you are disabled in the terms and conditions etc it instructs you to phone the park direct to disscuss requirement and advise, the park is still haven just one of their agents or branches if you like.

I haven't seen their T&Cs in full, but I'll take a bet that somewhere in there, there'll be a "access to amusement park is included, but we take no responsability for their failure to provide xyz, etc..." or words to that effect, which is logical enough, if you think about it, since it isn't under Haven's management.

ther is wording like this but it applies to passes and does`nt include anything like we take no responsibility etc. and like i said it is still under havens management it is just like agent or branch.

I also think that you are misinterpreting the above. Their "core" term will be to provide you with a pitch/caravan/whatever it is you booked for X amount of days, with access to Thorpe Park included in the price, I suppose?

i dont think i made myself clear thorpe park isnt a amusement park it is a caravan park with entertainment ,their entertainment etc is in no way a seperate company to haven

Furthermore - sorry - reading your post, you seem to indicate that you were contacting Thorpe Park to ask about the facilities, so if any misleading/not up to date info has been given, then it's Thorpe Park which failed to give you that info, not Haven, so I can't see how you are making them responsible for that.

so for example if i went into my local halifax branch and oh i dont know i fell over a cable sticking out then halifax plc would not be culpable but the branch instead?

i am not trying to argue just make facts clearer and so on

voyager9

[Bookworm]

Ok, I think I've got the wrong end of the stick here, are we talking of a different Thorpe Park by any chance? (I did wonder about the swimming-pools, but then what do I know? )

[voyager9]

as well in a way they forced to to carry on and make use of the pitch etc by inserting this into the contract

“If you cut your holiday short we are not obliged to offer a refund”

therefore if we had of left in disgust we would of had no comeback.

also in their letter they state
" the chaging facilitys were removed in error" which implies it wasnt neccasary to remove them.

also if something like a lift in a shop breaks down then yes you cant help that but if they completely removed it then i think its a different matter.

voyager

[voyager9]

ha yes bookworm we are

Thorpe Park Caravan Park | Haven Holidays Official Site

that is correct one lol

[Bookworm]

*penny drops from a large height and hits Bookie squarely on the forehead*

Ok, let me have a re-read and a think and I'll get back to you.

[voyager9]

ok bookworm no probs ,hope it didnt hurt to much, would it help if i scanned the terms and conditions and sent them to you?

[Bookworm]

Yes, definitely. I am going through the online ones as it is.

Also confirm how you booked (phone/online?) and how long was the holiday for in total?