BMI Baby flight cancellation

[dhw1977]

BMI baby recently e mailed me saying they had cancelled my flight and had rebooked me on on alternative flight later that day. The alternative flight is no good to me as it arrives too late, so I have rebooked myself on a different airline.

BMI baby terms and conditions clearly state that in the event of a flight cancellation, I am entitled "at my option" to either an "alternative flight", "rerouting" or a refund.

I spent a good 15 minutes on hold to their 0871 customer services number to be told that this constitutes a schedule change, not a cancellation, and therefore they will not refund my ticket. I asked to speak to a supervisor. This was denied and I was told to write to customer services.

I did so, including copies of all e mails and copies of the relevant terms and conditions.

I have had a reply citing a separate term, which states that "The flight times shown in timetables may change between the date of publication and the date you actually travel. We do not guarantee them to you and they do not form part of your contract with us". Once again they are refusing to refund the fare.

They are out of order on several points:-

• They have already admitted to me in an e mail that this change to my reservation constitutes a flight cancellation and rebooking, not a schedule change
• The flight they moved me to later in the day has a different flight number, so I don't understand how they can claim this a simply a schedule change
• The EU regulations, whilst not allowing compensation in this case because they have given sufficient notice, do state that in the event of flight cancellation a refund must be offered

I made all of these points in my letter to them and they have all been completely ignored.

I am very cheesed off and tempted to submit a claim through Money Claim Online for the airfare and for time and expenses in writing letters and making phone calls to expensive 0871 numbers.

Would this be wise to do at this stage, or would the court expect me to have tried to pursue the airline further first?

What amount would be legitimate to claim for administration expenses etc?

Would there be any value in writing to the Air Transport Users Council? (My feeling is not because they cannot force the airline to pay up)


Any thoughts on this?

[MARTIN3030]

Welcome to the site.
Yes you are right to suggest that a court would at first expect you to have tried to resolve your issues with BMI and that you were reasonably satisfied that they were not entertaining your claim.
I would send them a letter before action giving them all the information you have which supports your case for a full refund.
Send it recorded delivery to their registered offices keeping a copy of the letter and proof of delivery slip.
Give them 14 days to respond positively.
You can mention that you will also be filing a complaint with the OFT and FOS.
Airlines and travel agencies have been investigated quite frequently in the past and you may find some of their findings from archive material on both FOS and OFT websites.
Remember though that once litigation has started in the courts by you,the FOS will be reluctant to act on your behalf,rather leaving it to the courts.
Insofar as claims for expenses go,it is reasonable to claim those expenses which you can show you incurred..in the case of the phone calls,a highlighted list from a phone bill will suffice.You can add to this the cost of postage stationary etc.In the case of wasted costs applications for bank reclaims 9.25 an hour has been considered reasonable I see no reason why you cannot ask for this.
Another point worth mentioning and one that airlines fail to mention is that you are entitled automatically to apply for the tax back that you paid for the flight in any event.
Keep us posted on your progress and feel free to ask if you need further info.

BMI are members of Star Alliance since 2000.
I am pm ing you a link to some forums you may find something on.

[dhw1977]

Thanks for the helpful advice.

I had planned to claim £20 from them for time and administration. This is what they charge in administration for any ticket changes, so it seems a reasonable sum to ask for.

They haven't even offered to refund the taxes, even though, as you say, I am entitled to a refund of those in any event.

[MARTIN3030]

Dont forget they are running a business so will have tax advantages in that they will be offsetting some of their costs.
You however have no such advantage.
So regardless of THEIR charges work out your own and claim whatever is justified in your own costs.

[jazzhands]

Hi, this is my first post and I found this site after being frustrated by BMI Babay rescheduling my flight. Sounds like my experiences are very much the same as yours dhw1977.

Effectively BMI have rescheduled by 5 hours so that I arrive in Geneva at 20:30 instead of the 15:20 that I orginally booked. Add on 2-3 hour transfer to resort then it will be 23:00 at best when we arrive at the resort. Not the end of the world but we have 7 young children in our party so I don't think it is fair on them.

I am therefore trying to cancel the flight altogether. I have read the T&C's on BMI web site and can only find this:

9.1 SCHEDULES
9.1.1 The flight times shown in timetables may change between the date of publication and the date you actually travel. We do not guarantee them to you and they do not form part of your contract with us.
9.1.2 Before we accept your booking, we will notify you of the scheduled flight time in effect as of that time, and it will be shown on your Ticket. It is possible we may need to change the scheduled flight time subsequent to issuance of your Ticket. If you provide us with contact information, we will endeavour to notify you of any such changes. If, after you purchase your Ticket, we make a significant change to the scheduled flight time, which is not acceptable to you, and we are unable to book you on an alternate flight which is acceptable to you, you will be entitled to a refund in accordance with Article 10.2.

Not withstanding 9.1.1, do you think I have a right under 9.1.2 to ask for a refund?
I can see the debate becoming what constitutes 'significant' - is there a legal defintion of this?

Many thanks.

[dhw1977]

You are right to draw attention to the definition of the word "significant". Nowhere in their terms and conditions do they define the word. I'm not aware of any legal definition of the word in this context. Other more knowledgeable members of the forum may be able to comment on that. However to my mind a 5 hour change is extremely significant and therefore section 9.1.2 should apply.

As you allude to, sections 9.1.1 and 9.1.2 are incompatible with each other. If the schedules really are not part of your contract with them then section 9.1.2 is redundant. Having read all their terms and conditions, they seem to be deliberately vague, wooly and contradictory.

I find it hard to believe that section 9.1.1 would stand up in court - how could the schedule for a flight not be part of your contract with the airline? Again, perhaps someone more knowledgeable could comment.

The other important thing for you to check is whether the flight number has changed. If so, then they have cancelled your original flight and you are in the same position as me. In my case, they are pretending that my flight cancellation actually represents a schedule change, and they say that a change of about 3 hours is not "significant". Interestingly they told me over the phone that if the flight had been changed by more than 5 hours they would have refunded it.

[Douglas52]

Hi. Your case probably comes under EC regulation 261/2004.
If you look here
http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?ca...90&pageid=6480

and the at the memorandum of understanding here
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/148/DBC%20...ary%202005.pdf
you will see that the AUC IS responsible for handling complaints if your complaint to the airline is not handled satisfactorarily.

The full EU text is here
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/...en00010007.pdf

After that its probably off to the small claims court as suggested but you will have to prove they cancelled the flight.

[mikeymo]

I have recently had a problem with BmiBaby and I am looking for some advice.

The details are as follows.

At eleven o'clock on Sunday 22nd of June this year I was informed by a representative of Baby BMI that the four return flights that I had booked and paid for in January, to go to Knock Co Mayo Ireland due to fly out at 6.20pm that day, were cancelled.Seven and a half hours notice.

I was told there was a possibility of a flight on Thursday 26th of June.
This was of no use to me whatsoever, this was the day we were due to fly back. The Thursday flight was the next scheduled flight, the only way we were getting seats on that flight was if there were seats available.

So the situation was that nothing was done to get me and my party there any sooner than Thursday and even Thursday had a question mark over it.

On looking at their website I was very,very surprised and perturbed to find that I had to apply, to get a refund.

Baby BMI had my bank details they cancelled the flight the money paid by me should have been paid back into my account why should I have to apply to my own money back, I was and still am, livid !!

I also had put up a deposit for accommodation at a hotel in Westport, I had deposit on a hire car, I had spent money on other incidentals for the trip.

I also had personal hardship the and annoyance of loosing out on a very well planned holiday this was to be a very special occasion I had arranged to meet up with many relatives I had never met before and I feel very, very badly let down.

I also had the annoyance of the time consuming paper chase of finding out how to claim, then claiming and now how to complain and complaining.

The customer service has been appalling and I want compensated.

I have applyied for the cost of the flights by writing as advised.
I want to claim for rembursement of my lost deposit for the hotel and hire car and also for the time and bother that I have endured.
How do I stand legaly and is there a time lapse on me making a claim.

Should I wait until they have answered on the refund of the cost of the flights or should I claim right away and who should I contact.
best regards, Mikeymo

[Conniff]

There can be no doubt that you will get your flight refund, and yes you must claim for the lost deposits as well and don't forget the 6 months interest.

To refer to an earlier post - significant.

The dictionary meaning is - 'Having a great effect on or being of great concern'.

I believe that all the above are of 'great concern'.

[jazzhands]

It may also be worth checking what cover you have under any travel insurance policies you hold. They may offer advice on how to tackle your claim with BMI if it means them not having to settle a claim from you.