Honeymoon upset - Hearing on 19/12/06 - **RESULT**

[kirky]

Hi. Booked a holiday with Teletext on line, with Medinland. When we phoned them after finding a holiday on line, we expressed a need for a double bedded room, as this would be our honeymoon. The guy said, yeah, no problem, will make sure you get double bed. So, on the strength of that, we paid for the holiday...get to Costa Brava to find that the hotel don't even have double beds, so despite our complaint to manager at hotel and subsequent phone call to Medinland, nothing could be done. We were none too pleased and it didnt go down too well, sleeping in separate beds on our honeymoon! I have tried to get compensation from them, but they just keep saying that a request such as double bed, top floor, sea view etc is just a request and cannot be guaranteed. They just won't listen when I say, but we wouldn't have booked that particular holiday had we been informed of the fact that no doubles were available in Spain....I feel I am going around in circles and need some advice on where to go now. I have faxed everything to ABTA, but I just feel they will come back with the same response.

	Record your calls Follow this link to read the review of the Truecall telephone recorder and call manager. This is the Rolls Royce of call recorders. It's a bit pricey but if you buy it with our special offer you will get it at cost: about 20% discount. How much do we make on the deal? - Nothing at all. You can also buy cheaper devices from Maplins. Truecall is the best - but the important thing is to record your calls.

[Rich44]

I have to say that whilst I agree with you that ive never come across a double bed in Spanish resorts but that doesnt excuse the holiday company they should have told you your request couldnt be honoured.

I dont know if you have a case as such but sorry about what has happened to your honeymoon, I hope you still had a good time (did you push the beds together we've done that before whilst in Lanzarote).

Good luck with it

[kirky]

Hi, yeah, we pushed the beds together, but hung on for dear life as they slipped apart on the tiled floor! I haven't been away much, so wasn't aware that double beds weren't standard - and I did express that wish as part of a honeymoon - so they should have at least suggested an alternate country or hotel if they couldn't meet my stipulation, surely? Anyway - we're going to Turkey in September and this hotel DOES have doubles, it will be like a second honeymoon I guess.
Thanks for the interest - if anything comes of it, I will post to let you know.

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[Rich44]

No I agree with you if all the hotels have single beds then they should have told you and suggested another location, I hope you manage to get somewhere with it

[karenbrooks]

Hi
I work as a personal Travel Advisor and can advise you that unless your confirmation actually confirms a "Double Bed" there isn't a lot you can do about it. Your confirmation may have said "Request Double" but this is not guaranteed.

As a rule when I'm booking honeymoon I ask the clients if it is a priority, if it is then I would only look at hotels with guaranteed double beds
Karen Brooks
Personal Travel Advisors
ABTA G1147

[Bookworm]

I disagree. If OP made a specific request for double bed and was told it could be done, the holiday was quite clearly mis-sold.

I would suggest making a Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act, send £10, specifically requesting a copy of the phone conversation when you made the booking. I suggest you think what you want in terms of compensation: Refund, part-refund, what?

Then strongly worded letter to say that unless you get satisfactory response, you'll take them to small claims. As the deciding factor is balance of probabilities, a judge would have to decide whether on probability, you indeed made a request for a double bed for your honeymoon or not (whether you have copy of convo or not) and decide accordingly, should it get that far.

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[sb2675]

The terms & conditions of Medinland Ltd quite clearly state:

9 – SPECIAL REQUESTS

Special requests are not guaranteed, but we will always do our best to comply with any such requests, provided they are made well in advance of your date of departure.

By booking the holiday you would have agreed to these.

However, as you booked through Teletext, it is worth checking their policy too.

Having set up numerous tour operators and written t&c's, this is a standard condition.

If, as you say, you were told this wouldn't be a problem, you may wish to ask them for a transcript of the conversation. You may find that if the consultant who booked your holiday was found to have actually said it was confirmed, they MAY offer a gesture of goodwill.

Take another look at your invoice. Usually, tour ops will put requests on the invoice, followed by 'not guaranteed'.

[Bookworm]

Unfair term: If OP has booked on phone, she can not be aware of written T&Cs.

She paid on the strength of what the representative said, and he said he would ensure it was done. Therefore, the holiday was mis-sold.

IMO, there is a very good case for pushing it through, as previously outlined.

[sb2675]

Hi. Booked a holiday with Teletext on line

I am only giving an opinion from someone who has been in tour operations for years and has had to produce evidence for defending such claims.

This is a very regular complaint, and yes may well have been mis-sold by the consultant over the phone, but you need evidence!

Thought it would help to give the other side of the argument so that 'kirky' is fully prepared.

My comments also stand. By booking you are agreeing to the terms and conditions.

[Bookworm]

That's ok, I'm also only giving an opinion.

And evidence would help, yes. That's why I suggested OP make a Data Protection Act request. If she can get a transcript of the phone call, and it corroborates her, it would be more than sufficient.
If she can't, as I said, in the Small Claims Court, a judge would decide on balance of probabilities.
Is it more probable that she asked for a double bed on her honeymoon and was told she would get it, than NOT asked for it?
Is it more probable that she asked for a double bed, was told it was not guaranteed, then proceeded to book anyway, than not?

That's what a judge will base his decision in a case where there is no actual proof one way or another.

As for Terms and conditions, I am DELIGHTED that they do not supersede the law of this land, or none of us would be able to get our money back from the banks. By booking over the phone, she can not have agreed to the written T&Cs, that would be an unfair term in law. It may be argued that when sent the written T&Cs, if she was, she might have read the T&Cs, and checked with T/O and subsequently cancelled (if she was indeed given the possibility to do so at no financial loss for herself), but there is a court decision (regarding Estoppel) that clearly ruled that it was not the customer's responsability to check his statements, and I'm pretty confident the same rule would apply in OP's case.

I'm not refuting your knowledge. But this site is about empowering the customer, and I'm pretty sure that there'll be plenty more cases where people who thought they had no chance against companies like this, will be able to reclaim the right. Their right. Damn right.

	Record your calls Follow this link to read the review of the Truecall telephone recorder and call manager. This is the Rolls Royce of call recorders. It's a bit pricey but if you buy it with our special offer you will get it at cost: about 20% discount. How much do we make on the deal? - Nothing at all. You can also buy cheaper devices from Maplins. Truecall is the best - but the important thing is to record your calls.

[joneshousehold]

The problem Bookworm is that people who work in an industry, and I'm pretty sure the travel industry is the same, are told by the powers that be that there are no grounds for compensation. The staff just do as they are told and never question what they are told. If it never goes to court it never really gets challenged. That's what the banks have done all this while. I think you are right as I cannot see how anyone booking over the phone could agree to written T&C's.

Kirky, I think Bookworm's advice is good and you should start by getting that Data Protection Act request in. I would be inclined to make a decision as to how to proceed after getting the Data Protection Act reply back because you will then know the strength of your evidence.

Keep us informed as I am keen to know how you get on. Good luck.

[heidi1]

IMO, as a Travel consultant my-self, that you need to get the name of the consultant who booked the holiday for you. If you didn't take record of that, you can find out quite easily by calling the company up and asking them.

They will ask for booking references etc etc... The guy that booked your holiday then needs a serious talking to, because he cannot say that he will def. sort you a dble bed, when he knows fine well he cannot guarantee it! He at the very least needs to make you aware that it is a request, and they can never be guaranteed! Unfortunatley, its your word against his at this stage. But if you make your voice heard and talk to his superiors and demand that something be done (if only so it doesn't happen again to someone else).

I for one would never say something like that in order to 'get a booking', I have a good reputation with my clients and I like it to stay that way! Honesty gains respect in my book! Shame others aren't too concerned about what other people think of them! Not good business sense.

Hope you get this one sorted. Congratulations by the way!

Heidi

[kirky]

Hi everyone, thanks very much for all the advice and support. The invoice states "double bed needed" - not requested. It's a brilliant idea sending for the transcript of the booking - it will definitely prove I stated that we needed the double as it was our honeymoon and that no where during the conversation did the guy say it couldn't be guaranteed.
Will set about this and keep you informed. Sorry for the delay - been otherwise engaged with a dodgy new car! That's another thread I think...car only 3 months old and the brakes have failed - no accident or injury thank God, but I am, apparently, entitled to a full refund or replacement - I do not have to have it repaired...so I'm on the case tomorrow. This site has really given me the guts to go out there and do something about injustice! Thanks again

[kirky]

Hi folks
Done the Data Protection Act letter....will keep you posted

[pmhread]

Best of luck with this.... as if you wouldn't require a double bed on your honeymoon sheesh...

The seperate beds come later

[Rich44]

Well maybe they thought you would only need space on the bed for one body it being the honeymoon n all

lol

[kirky]

Originally Posted by Rich44

Well maybe they thought you would only need space on the bed for one body it being the honeymoon n all

lol

Ha ha! I see your point - but still!

[Rich44]

Oh no totally agree with you after all cant be doing that kinda thing all the time, you need to sleep too hehehehe, go get em

[kirky]

We might get away with very little sleep if we were in our 20s, but he can't cope with such a huge demand at his age! Me, on the other hand....well...
...still, I asked for a double bed, I wanted one. Too bloody old to be doing acrobatics between singles! I nearly ended up on the floor several times - I should get compensation just for the humiliation!
Will post as soon as I get a response from them - they should have my letter by now.

[kirky]

I have a response from Medinland. They deny having recorded my conversation and have returned my cheque.
I have now decided to take this further and have put together a letter - before I post it, could someone please let me know if this is ok and that I have used the jargon in context?

"Thank you for your letter, dated 26th June 2006, received today and the return of my cheque for £10.00 which was to be payment for the Disclosure of Data. If, as you say you did not record my telephone conversation, then I must now take this to a court and let the judge decide – on a balance of probability - whether I did, indeed express a need to have a double bed whilst on my honeymoon. I think it is obvious from the fact that your representative put “double bed needed”, rather than “requested” on the invoice. Your representative clearly made promissory estoppel and while I understand you feel you are not liable in anyway because of your “Terms and Conditions”, I feel a judge would agree with me that terms and conditions do not supercede the Law in this country and when booking over a telephone, I cannot possibly read all of the terms and conditions, but have to rely on the honesty and integrity of your company.

May I remind you: Estoppel in English law is defined as: "a principle of justice and of equity. It comes to this: when a man, by his words or conduct, has led another to believe in a particular state of affairs, he will not be allowed to go back on it when it would be unjust or inequitable for him to do so." In other words, your company made a promise to me at the time of the contract and has since rescinded that promise, you therefore caused me to suffer loss and inconvenience, for which I must be compensated.

I intend to submit a claim in court if I have not heard from you with a satisfactory response within the next 14 days. “Satisfactory” would be a full refund, or an alternate holiday – with a double bed."

Please let me know - I'll post it tomorrow, but would like some advice on it's content!
Thanks