alanfromderby Beneficial - Data Protection Act (No Data Held), CCA(1974) Disclosure Offence Committed

alanfromderby · 2nd May 2006, 15:32

Another one started today. This is a Visa Card that was withdrawn around 1999, but is being paid through TBI Financial Services. The first letter off today to the DCA, will get the Data Protection Act off to HFC/Beneficial during the next couple of days. Once again this is being claimed on the argument that a debt cannot be statute barred by one party, whilst it is enforcible by the other.

TBI Financial Services Ltd
185 Elgar Road
Reading
Berkshire
RG2 0DL

2nd May 2006

Dear Sirs,

Reference: BENEFICIAL BANK / x/xxxxxxxx

Please be aware that I no longer acknowledge this debt to your company, and therefore require you to supply the following documentation before I will correspond further.

Firstly, you must supply me with a true copy of the agreement you refer to in this matter. This is my right under the legislation contained within section 77 (1) and section 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 - your obligation also extends to providing a statement of account. I enclose a £1 postal order in payment of the statutory fee.

I also require that you supply a signed true copy of the deed of assignment of the above referenced agreement.

You are reminded that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not, under section 189 of the CCA 1974.

As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

Take note at this stage, that any legal action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested. I am now initiating investigations with Beneficial Finance into the validity of the original amount that was claimed to be owed, and will be in contact with you again in due course. In the meantime please be aware that I consider this matter to be “in dispute.

Yours faithfully

Spiceskull · 2nd May 2006, 17:56

Great letter - good luck.

alanfromderby · 10th May 2006, 14:01

Excellent letter from TBI this morning. It would seem that they have not got a copy of the original agreement and have had to contact HFC/Beneficial to get a copy.

The clock is ticking.

It also means that if HFC/Beneficial do send them a copy - and then fail to supply it with my Data Protection Act request......

alanfromderby · 16th May 2006, 15:10

The news gets better.

I had a very interesting letter from HFC (Beneficial) this morning, explaining that they could not provide any transactional information from more than six years ago, and have duly returned my postal order.

They did send a few sheets of information referring to 2004/5, but have confirmed that they made a decision in 1999 not to pursue the debt. What they did not send was the original signed agreement - although I have to say I did not specifically ask for it.

This poses an interesting point, since TBI (who have bought the debt), have written to HFC to request a copy of the original agreement. If they get the same response, that HFC have no information further back than 6 years - they will be effectively stuffed.

No signed agreement, no case....end of!!

alanfromderby · 3rd June 2006, 00:32

The time warp is now over, so I can finally post this:

Tomorrow morning I reach a very interesting position.

We had a Visa card with Beneficial Bank (now part of HFC), which was closed around 1999. The debt was eventually bought by TBI Financial Services, to whom we have been paying a small monthly payment.

The original debt contained a large amount of fees, and the intention was to challenge these, however it would seem that neither TBI or HFC/Beneficial have any of the records - and as at tomorrow morning, TBI will have committed an offence under the Consumer Credit Act, in that they will have failed to provide the statutory information within one month of the request.

So, I would suggest that the money they claim is owed (£1042.55) is now unenforceable, and any attempt by them to try and enforce it will result in a complaint to Trading Standards, and a very rough ride for them through the county court - and that is if they manage to get their hands on the orginal documents!!

8 hours to go....and hopefully another victory on my road back to being solvant!!

Movingon · 3rd June 2006, 00:41

Best of luck Alan... these organisations really make most of their money from people who DON'T BOTHER to fight back... and it seems a lot of it is illegal/unlawful money.

Just remember the phrase "... and lack of it is a complete defence..."

Now - with this being a criminal offence, which individual has committed it? And who do you contact to report it - surely not the police? Surely this is now not a matter for you to pursue, as criminal law enforcement is not dealt with by the County Courts...???

What would your next step be?

alanfromderby · 3rd June 2006, 01:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by StoneLaughter

Now - with this being a criminal offence, which individual has committed it? And who do you contact to report it - surely not the police? Surely this is now not a matter for you to pursue, as criminal law enforcement is not dealt with by the County Courts...???

What would your next step be?

This is a very good question. My understanding was that it was a matter that Trading Standards were supposed to pursue, but I read on another thread that in a similar situation they just contacted the DCA to ask for an explanation.

As far as I am concerned, I am not interested in following it up as I have more important battles to fight. Of course, should they decide to try enforcement action, or put any adverse report on my credit file, then they will find themselves in court.

At the moment though, assuming that I don't hear from them in the morning, I am happy to accept the unenforceability of the £1042.55 owed, as being a fair offset against their unlawful charges. If they feel they can persuade a District Judge differently, then the ball is in their court.

Spiceskull · 3rd June 2006, 01:06

It seems to me that AFD is pursuing these claims with something akin to holy zeal. Good for you - they collude in engineering customers into positions of debt - and the fightback is bound to give them a bloody nose...good luck.

I sincerely expect the goodwill to be reciprocated when I make my second claim, for a fifth refund, from HSBC. D'you know, I am jealous of all people who have claims against more than one institution...

alanfromderby · 3rd June 2006, 12:03

Okay, the postman has now been, and no information from TBI - so, as far as I am concerned that is another issue finished, ended, done with!!

Sophie-Jane · 6th June 2006, 15:46

Hi Alan

1st thing, Great news - Keep it up, you are an inspiration

I have a couple of quetions

I am in a similar position, Equidebt took over my original debt (Charges etc) from Alliance & Leicester.

Now the first question, Time scales, Should if I use your letter, apart from amending it to my needs, Should I add a 40 day time scale, Is that reasonable time to get this information from them

Also, With the Account now in Dispute, All payments should stop, Am I right ?

I will start my own thread with further details as I progress, just that I need at clarify a couple of questions prior to taking further action.

All help is Very much appreciated, and as I win, I will donate, and fill in the Survey

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanfromderby

Another one started today. This is a Visa Card that was withdrawn around 1999, but is being paid through TBI Financial Services. The first letter off today to the DCA, will get the Data Protection Act off to HFC/Beneficial during the next couple of days. Once again this is being claimed on the argument that a debt cannot be statute barred by one party, whilst it is enforcible by the other.

TBI Financial Services Ltd
185 Elgar Road
Reading
Berkshire
RG2 0DL

2nd May 2006

Dear Sirs,

Reference: BENEFICIAL BANK / x/xxxxxxxx

Please be aware that I no longer acknowledge this debt to your company, and therefore require you to supply the following documentation before I will correspond further.

Firstly, you must supply me with a true copy of the agreement you refer to in this matter. This is my right under the legislation contained within section 77 (1) and section 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 - your obligation also extends to providing a statement of account. I enclose a £1 postal order in payment of the statutory fee.

I also require that you supply a signed true copy of the deed of assignment of the above referenced agreement.

You are reminded that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not, under section 189 of the CCA 1974.

As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

Take note at this stage, that any legal action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested. I am now initiating investigations with Beneficial Finance into the validity of the original amount that was claimed to be owed, and will be in contact with you again in due course. In the meantime please be aware that I consider this matter to be “in dispute.

Yours faithfully

alanfromderby · 6th June 2006, 15:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sophie-Jane

Now the first question, Time scales, Should if I use your letter, apart from amending it to my needs, Should I add a 40 day time scale, Is that reasonable time to get this information from them

Also, With the Account now in Dispute, All payments should stop, Am I right ?

In the case of the Consumer Credit Act it is not a case of what is reasonable as far as time is concerned. The legislation says that the Debt Collection Agency should provide a copy of the agreement within 12 working days, and that after 1 month, they have committed an offence.

If they fail to supply in 12 working days they are in default and cannot legally enforce the debt until they supply the document - so at that point you are within your rights to stop payment.

After the 1 month they have committed an offence. At this stage you can either report them to Trading Standards, or do as I am doing, and hold that in reserve should they try to seek enforcement.

Of course this does not stop you from issuing a Data Protection Act request to Alliance and Leicester - and you can the pursue them for a refudn of charges. In my case I am not interested in doing this as my gut feeling is that the amount is roughly what I owe them - and they are unlikely to still have the records.

chrismc · 6th June 2006, 16:14

Alan

You have posted some very good information in this thread for people in the same boat, thanks for the insight, help and advice, and good luck with all your conquests. It is extremly interesting the way you are tackling this lot!!

Chris

Sophie-Jane · 7th June 2006, 14:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanfromderby

Of course this does not stop you from issuing a Data Protection Act request to Alliance and Leicester - and you can the pursue them for a refudn of charges. In my case I am not interested in doing this as my gut feeling is that the amount is roughly what I owe them - and they are unlikely to still have the records.

I have continued mine on the following link
Non Responce by A&L

it is part of my Action against Alliance & Leicester

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