Claiming beyond 6 yrs - important new information!!!

[BankFodder]

We think that claimants should consider claiming beyond 6 yrs.

Firstly, the charges campaign has been in full swing now for a good year. The banks were well aware of it a year ago and also the OFT report highlighted the law and the bank's obligations - just in case any of them were at all in doubt.

To my mind this is good evidence that any bank which continued its charges regime after the date of the first OFT report has been concealing its charges regime and therefore has lost the protection of the Limitation Act.

I do not believe that the Limitation Act offers any long-stop mechanism so that if you concealed the facts one year ago then you do not merely accrue an additional year of liability. I think that a single instance of concealment invokes s.32 and the limitation barrier falls away completely.

Concealment amounts to a question of the morality of the defendant's action. Once this is established then I do not believe that the courts will strive to give them any help.
I understand from Zootscoot that this view is also confirmed by case-law.

In fact it seems even if a concealment has occurred even after the breach in question has occurred, the limitation period still falls away.

If the banks want to challenge this then it is up to the claimant to respond at least with the arguments above and then if the bank want to rebut this, they can rebut it with a statement of truth.
I doubt whether any of them would dare. They are already getting in too deep as it is.
A statement of truth which is made knowing that it is false or reckless as to its truth is a contempt of court. I do not believe that the banks would go this far

We would urge all claimants to claim as far back as they can.
In the case of the Yorkshire and Clydesdale banks we would suggest that even where claimants have accepted full and final settlements or have accepted compromise settlements that they should now go back for anything outstanding on the basis that the Whistleblower disclosures show that there has been concealment and that any full and final agreements are now vitiated by that concealment.

We expect to be giving the same advice in respect of other banks as more information surfaces - as it surely will.

However, we consider that beyond 6 years is now just a basic claim.

We will be amending templates and so forth in the coming days

	Bank Charges You should have started your claim for your bank charges by now. Don't wait. You should send your bank a Subject Acess Request asking for all personal data they hold on you - not just statements. You should calculate all of your bank charges and related interest as far back as 1995. You should send your bank a demand for a refund giving them 7 days. You should commence your legal action adding 8% statutory interest. If you wait for the outcome of the test case, you may not be able to claim like this. you may not be able to claim interest. You may only be offered the difference between the charge and the OFT "fair charge". The repayment scheme will try to limit you to refinds from 2001 only. A repayment scheme will not deal with any bank charges related defaults on the credit register whereas in a court action you can ask for these to be removed and to be compensated for the damage caused to you and your family by them. You should also write to the bank and to the CRA and put all charges related credit entries in disupte and warn them that you will want them removed from the Register when the test case is over. Warn them also that you are likely to be seeking compensation for these wrongful data entries. Full and final settlement Have you previously accepted a partial repayment of your bank charges in full settlement? You will still be able to claim the rest of your money back after the Test case is decided. Get all your information back to 1995 and put in your claim now.

[wannagethelp]

Hello,

I've just read this post and my heart lifted,,,,,,would this apply to a bank account now closed? Also, I had paid hundreds and hundreds of pounds in costs on a regular basis to NatWest over ten years ago,,,would I be able to claim them back? That would actually change my life its so much money

[JulesTools]

Originally Posted by BankFodder

Concealment amounts to a question of the morality of the defendant's action. Once this is established then I do not believe that the courts will strive to give them any help.
I understand from Zootscoot that this view is also confirmed by case-law.

Hi BF

Great news just what everyone has been waiting for

Would it be possible for you to name the cases mentioned by Zoot for reading up on?

Thanks

Jules

[dori2o]

So, if I have sent off a Subject Access Request recently, and they have replied with stating that they only hold information, in the format of bank statements for a period of 6 years. I should now contact them asking for any and all information held in any format defined under the Data Protection Act, giving the reasons as per bankfodders OP

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[hicks]

sure i read somewhere recently of a woman who reclaimed 10years worth of payments but she had all her old statements.

the problem as I understand it is that the banks are only required to keep 6years worth of details(or provide 6years) and this is the only thing stopping claimants going back further.

[Ropey]

Barclays do keep 12 years of statements; though I suspect they may start warming up the furnaces soon.

[BankFodder]

Here's a caveat:
Do not think that your repayment will be automatic. The banks are likely to dig their heels in even more. However, you should dig your heels in too. If they want to argue it in court then that's fine. We are all ready.
However, they are most unlikely to go into court and by claiming pre-6yrs, the stakes for them are raised even higher and now there is a good argument to dislodge the limitation barrier.

Of course there is the problem of getting statements but I would say that all banks keep their records for a very considerable period of time.

The Abbey, for instance keep their records back to 1926.

We have seen the tricks which the banks have used in the past to prevent access to personal data.

Both Barclays and Abbey have been found to be in breach of their statutory obligation.
The BBC showed the culture of dishonesty which exists within Barclays.
Watch out for dirty tricks generally in any bank.


However, our advantage is that we receive and share so much information from our Users and also helpful information from bank staff who are sickened by the attitude of their employers that I am sure that we will always have access to the truth.

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[jaxads]

Great news, I'll be sending some letters to Barclays for "old" credit card accounts after the Easter Break - they'll no doubt owe my OH more than he owes them!!!!

[TRACYFLYY]

Would anyone know how long the royal bank of scotland and halifax keep our account records for? If this all works out then like a previous member to this thread my life would change considerably. They have taken that much money from me in the past whilst bringing up a family.

[Egeit]

This is good. I think the banks will definitely dig their heels on this.
Couple of points on this:
1. What if the banks say they dont have any of details of charges further back is that you stumped?
2. Is this England only? will it cover Scotalnd, bearing in mind that the Scottish small claims only have a £750 limit and that you're into the Sheriff court system.
Does anyone know of anybody who has actually claimed further back and had a success?

[sandbag]

I am so happy to have read this thread - i will be attempting to claim back charges from Barclays from 1989- Subject Access Request ready and waiting to go.
Best wishes
Sandbag.

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[Egeit]

Go for it. Keep us updated. I went through a bad period just over the 6 years cut off. If this was possible, I think I could semi retire!!
Good luck

[standingupformyself]

Over 6 years???? That's fascinating. Both hubby and I ended up with CCJ's in about 1993 via Barclays Bank. Both were for around £500 I recall, all purely bank charges. In a nutshell, I wasn't working, had three tiny children and hubby got made redundant (at a time when everyone around us was, the recession I beleive they called it.........Nigel Lawson "Unemployment is a small price to pay to keep inflation down" ...

If I was to send SARS to Barclays without knowing any account numbers for around 1990-3 Would I realistically have any chance of receiving the statements?

	What are your rights at work Follow this link to read the review of the Guide to your Rights at work, published by Lawpack

	Bank Charges You should have started your claim for your bank charges by now. Don't wait. You should send your bank a Subject Acess Request asking for all personal data they hold on you - not just statements. You should calculate all of your bank charges and related interest as far back as 1995. You should send your bank a demand for a refund giving them 7 days. You should commence your legal action adding 8% statutory interest. If you wait for the outcome of the test case, you may not be able to claim like this. you may not be able to claim interest. You may only be offered the difference between the charge and the OFT "fair charge". The repayment scheme will try to limit you to refinds from 2001 only. A repayment scheme will not deal with any bank charges related defaults on the credit register whereas in a court action you can ask for these to be removed and to be compensated for the damage caused to you and your family by them. You should also write to the bank and to the CRA and put all charges related credit entries in disupte and warn them that you will want them removed from the Register when the test case is over. Warn them also that you are likely to be seeking compensation for these wrongful data entries. Full and final settlement Have you previously accepted a partial repayment of your bank charges in full settlement? You will still be able to claim the rest of your money back after the Test case is decided. Get all your information back to 1995 and put in your claim now.

[livelylad]

Originally Posted by TRACYFLYY

Would anyone know how long the royal bank of scotland and halifax keep our account records for? If this all works out then like a previous member to this thread my life would change considerably. They have taken that much money from me in the past whilst bringing up a family.

I recieved 15 years of Statements from RBS

[andromeda411]

does this apply in scotland aswell as i have heard that you can only claim for 5 years in scotland.hopefully it does!i have at present got a Subject Access Request in on intelligent finance and one in on the bank of scotland.35 days gone and still waiting. do i chase them up or just wait till the 40 days are up?thanksandromeda411

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[Egeit]

Dont worry about the requst to the bank, I was told by HBOS that they had to bring extra staff to deal with the demand! Speak volumes dosent it. I sent off for mine at the start of february and it was the end of march before I received anything back. Hold in there.

[Egeit]

Originally Posted by livelylad

I recieved 15 years of Statements from RBS

Did you manage to claim the lot back or did you go for the statutory years?
Tell me, did you get Parcel Force to deliver them? ha ha. I only got 5 years and it was 30 odd envelopes.

[dori2o]

Following a conversation with a friend who's currently reclaiming charges, we have come to the cross roads regarding getting the information from over 6 years ago. We both have closed accounts with HSBC who have written as per my post above, to advise they do not keep details over 6 years old.

I have been asked to verify if then in this situation, should you put in a claim for a 'set fee' i.e. £500/£1000, and then make the bank verify that this amount does not reflect the charges i.e. by producing the actual details of the charges on the account?

[Egeit]

That sounds interesting. My main problem and probably that of others staying north of the border is, does this cover Scottish legislation.

[TRACYFLYY]

can solicitors representing claimants gain access to these offendin banks archives/records of accounts? surely it would be illegal to conceal this information!