Why let your bank keep your money? Calculating your charges claim

[Stubie]

Originally Posted by HSBCrusher

I personally think that the credit card £12 is a red herring.
Ignore it.
£12 is just the level that the OFT would take action, that level was not deemed fair. Only a court can decide this.
If a similar limit is set for bank charges then hey ho... we can still argue its too high, and reclaim the lot.
As for positive interest, someone who has had £thousands in charges would have been in the black... and interest would have been paid by the bank.

I personally think this is going to be very difficult to calculate. I think interest taken because of charges is much easier. Its much easier to stand up in front of a Judge and say "this is what I have lost" as opposed to "this is what I could have got".

Also, by the time interest and charges have been added, working through from the 6 years up it soon becomes the case that you would have not been in the red at all... and all the interest charged is reclaimable.

Cheers HSB,

I used £12 as an illustration only.

What you are saying is that the account is amended historically, which was my question.

I take you point about actual losses as opposed opportunity losses.

I will leave it there as I am confusing everyone (including myself) and diverting the thread from its original intent.

Thanks for your patience Guys

Stubie

[photoman]

Stubie.

Any claim you make is based upon the contention that you should not have incurred the charge at the actual time of the charge. Thus your account balance at that point is amended in any calculations.

ie: Any additional interest incurred from that point onwards (and up until the time of your claim) which arose (either at the time or subsequently) as a result of the charge, is recoverable.

eg:
Lets say you incurred a charge in 2006 of £35, and this took you £35 overdrawn.
Then, you would have paid overdraft interest upon the sum of £35.
Now, lets say this was £2.
This means that the bank has taken a total of £37 from you.

If another 3, 6, 12, 24 or whatever months later your account became £37 overdrawn, (perhaps this time for legitimate over spending on your behalf).
And lets say this time you incurred interest of say £3 on that £37.

You contend that the account balance would not have been overdrawn by £37 had you not incurred the earlier charge, and the interest thereon.
Thus, that months interest of £3 is also recoverable.

ie: the effect is cumulative.

[Stubie]

Cheers Photoman,

Thanks for the clarification, have a green scaly thingy on me.

[BankFodder]

Originally Posted by Notty

I claimed charges back from Halifax and added the 8% interest. That was in 2006. I now have more charges on my account and have sent the first two letters and I am about to issue the N1. My question is did I add the correct amount of interest as I didnt really understand the contractual interest so only added the 8% from the spreadsheet and can I add this on to the new claim or is it too late for old claims?

If you have already claimed back charges but didn't claim back the interest on those charges then there is nothing to stop you going back, calcualting all of the interest which was levied on those charges and starting another claim.
If you had to take it to court, you would add 8% interest to that too.

Don't forget. this is interest which they have actually taken from you.

We are not talking about interest which you have decided to charge them for the use of your money. That would be something different and it is called "contractual interest".

[HSBCrusher]

Originally Posted by Stubie

I will leave it there as I am confusing everyone (including myself) and diverting the thread from its original intent.

not at all..

thats what cag is about IMHO, its about throwing ideas around.

[Notty]

Thanks for that Bankfodder. I think I am slowly understanding it but I will get out all of the old paperwork and look at it but I will probably be back on here asking more dumb questions. My original charges were for nearly £4000 and as I said I did add the 8% interest but they owe me another £600 charges since 2006 so all in all it could be chunky money? Wont they stay any claim that it put in? Its not a problem as I can wait. I have an overdraft with them so I am hoping it will pay this off? I am going to read all of this thread again and try and digest the info. I also claimed for various credit cards and again only added the 8% interest so if we can I will have a go at them too.

[BankFodder]

Yes, claims will be stayed - but if you put them into the County Court, at least they will be earning 8%.

Also, once again, a staggering number of people seem not to be bothering about claiming back the interest which they have also paid on the charges which have been taken from them unlawfully.

This adds up to a lot of money for the claimant - or a significant benefit for the bank if you don't bother.

Go for every penny. you worked for it and it is yours.

If you don't claim it, it will only be spend on bonuses, excessive pension deals, fancy executive expenses etc.
Is that what you want?

[noddyaccount]

Originally Posted by BankFodder

If you have already claimed back charges but didn't claim back the interest on those charges then there is nothing to stop you going back, calcualting all of the interest which was levied on those charges and starting another claim.
If you had to take it to court, you would add 8% interest to that too.

Don't forget. this is interest which they have actually taken from you.

We are not talking about interest which you have decided to charge them for the use of your money. That would be something different and it is called "contractual interest".

I am about to make a claim , as I have no O/D facility , they defer the charges a couple of weeks so even though they write about an unauthorised O/D rate of 28.8% , because I am in credit I tend to pay off the charges there and then . Can I charge them their unauthorised interest rate in good faith on the charges . it is not through their lack of trying that I happen to be in credit .

[BankFodder]

As long as you have actually paid that money over to them, then yes you can claim it back.

[brown1950]

Originally Posted by photoman

Bankfodder, and all.

I agree wholeheartedly that you should also make claim for the additional interest the bank has applied/deprived you of due to the charges.

By also accounting for such interest, you often quite quickly reach a point whereby you can actually see that any subsequent "overdraft excess" or "limit breach" that then later gave rise to charges arose solely due to accumulated earlier charges and the interest upon such.

I would even suggest considering going even further.

Many people are also forced at some point to take consolidation loans with their banks in order to repay "borrowing".
.... borrowing that is often solely or mostly originally made up of charges and interest upon such !!

The calculations are admittedly a bit more involved and difficult to determine, but for anyone who makes the effort the results can be quite an eye opener !!

The chain of events would go something like this:

1/ You incur bank charges.

2/ The bank applies/deprives you of account interest as a result.

3/ The bank then puts you under pressure to take out a consolidation loan, to repay your existing borrowing .... but we contend that this existing borrowing consisted either solely or largely of charges and interest upon your original account.

4/ The consolidation loan then incurs yet more interest.

5/ ALSO...the account you make the loan installments from, then incurs/ is deprived of further interest due to making the monthly loan repayments.

6/ As a result, the account that the installments are made from then goes overdrawn..... often due largely to the loan installments... thus incurring even more charges, and interest.

........ and the whole cycle starts all over again.


I am currently working on modifying some of Mindzais sheets to try and create a set of (preferably a single) spreadsheets that would more easily allow the calculation of such a chain of events.

I am no mathematician or accountant though, and work on such is slow, so if anyone else more competent is interested in helping me then post up here or get in touch?

Such spreadsheets are currently being worked on in "Open Office", which is free to download software from the web, meaning that you wouldn't need to buy any software to use them, and also means they can be universally used on either PC or Mac.

PM

This is very interesting. Have a claim presently 'stayed' relating to charges dating back to 1992. Recently i discovered a copy of a 'consolidated loan' dated Dec 1996 which under pressure from the 'bank' i had to take out in order to pay off the overdraft which included 'charges'

Amount of consolidated loan 1085.00 + interest 679.98 (interest rate 29.50%) total amount payable 1764.98. This i think is a perfect example of what is mentioned above. Letters have been sent to the 'bank' claiming return of 1764.98 plus 8% (no replies) however i will now look at the interest rate of 29.50% dating back to 1996 ! Please correct me if i am not on the right track.

[yourbank]

Originally Posted by brown1950

This is very interesting. Have a claim presently 'stayed' relating to charges dating back to 1992. Recently i discovered a copy of a 'consolidated loan' dated Dec 1996 which under pressure from the 'bank' i had to take out in order to pay off the overdraft which included 'charges'

Amount of consolidated loan 1085.00 + interest 679.98 (interest rate 29.50%) total amount payable 1764.98. This i think is a perfect example of what is mentioned above. Letters have been sent to the 'bank' claiming return of 1764.98 plus 8% (no replies) however i will now look at the interest rate of 29.50% dating back to 1996 ! Please correct me if i am not on the right track.

Ouch, is that not double dipping so to speak. I agree totally on the interest but if it was to pay the charges ie consolidating them are you not now claiming charges twice, ie charges themselves plus consolidation loan principal(excl. interest which is claimable of course).

[Stubie]

I did read about someone with an unenforcible credit agreement who went for statutory and contractual interest, and got it!

Have to agree though, I think you are pushing your luck trying for both.

Why not claim contractual, and keep the reduction to statutory as a bargaining tool? Who knows, you might end up better off, you can only negotiate one way

[yourbank]

Stubie, I didn't mean the interest in Brown's post. I meant he is claiming back bank charges. However he is claiming the full consolidation loan which would have consolidated or paid back charges which is why I was querying the double dipping. If he claims bank bank charges and consolidation loan interest then I don't see and issue with what he is doing.

[brown1950]

Originally Posted by yourbank

Stubie, I didn't mean the interest in Brown's post. I meant he is claiming back bank charges. However he is claiming the full consolidation loan which would have consolidated or paid back charges which is why I was querying the double dipping. If he claims bank bank charges and consolidation loan interest then I don't see and issue with what he is doing.

Oki Doki now understand. Have given NastyWest 10 days to pay 1764.98 plus 8% dating back to Dec96. (Total over 3500) No doubt another court claim is required -which will be stayed.

[yourbank]

Originally Posted by brown1950

Oki Doki now understand. Have given NastyWest 10 days to pay 1764.98 plus 8% dating back to Dec96. (Total over 3500) No doubt another court claim is required -which will be stayed.

Have you already claimed the charges back over the period prior to the consolidation loan?
What I am getting at is that the consolidation loan was to repay the charges so you would claiming twice for the same charges(does that make sense?).
I think Interest on the consolidation loan is a YES.

[brown1950]

Originally Posted by yourbank

Have you already claimed the charges back over the period prior to the consolidation loan?
What I am getting at is that the consolidation loan was to repay the charges so you would claiming twice for the same charges(does that make sense?).
I think Interest on the consolidation loan is a YES.

Yes i have a claim with NastyWest covering charges for the period 1992-1999
which is presently 'stayed'

So basically what i can claim in relation to the 'Consolidation loan' is :-

Interest of 679.98
plus 8% interest covering 1996-2009

[yourbank]

yep, that is correctamundo since the charges that were consolidated are already being claimed.

[Stubie]

Originally Posted by yourbank

Stubie, I didn't mean the interest in Brown's post. I meant he is claiming back bank charges. However he is claiming the full consolidation loan which would have consolidated or paid back charges which is why I was querying the double dipping. If he claims bank bank charges and consolidation loan interest then I don't see and issue with what he is doing.

Sorry,

Had a blond moment

As opposed to the usual grey

I must pay attention in class
I must pay attention in class
I must pay attention in class
I must pay attention in class
I must pay attention in class
I must pay attention in class
I must pay attention in class
etc etc

[brown1950]

Originally Posted by yourbank

yep, that is correctamundo since the charges that were consolidated are already being claimed.

To claim back interest paid on £679.98 from Dec1996 - 1st June 2009 =


8% (Statutory) = £1356.31
32.60%(APR) = £38,400.24

Will claim for the higher amount !

[landy_alert]

Originally Posted by ohoh4312

Draft Spreadsheet with info boxes if anyone would like to take a look:

Hi BankFodder, ohoh et al,

I've had a brief play around with the spreadsheet ohoh - I take it that as it's only at the experimental stage I can't enter a full 9 years worth of charges as per my statements, as the cells seemed to stop calculating once I got beyond your figures.......sorry if I'm being dim here but still a spreadsheet novice!

Our various claims to Lloyds have already gone off including overdraft interest on bank charges (these total over £30,000 for charges and mis-sold PPI ), but anything that can boost them even further sounds good to me as I hate that bank with a vengeance!

Keep up the good work!

Regards,

Landy x