Supply of Goods and Services Act

jimfishybob · 29th June 2006, 00:30

Could someone please explain how this is relevant? I believe that s15 only applies if you haven't agreed a price in advance. As the banks are telling us we agreed to the charges when we opened the account did we not then agree a price?

woolfie · 29th June 2006, 11:09

I assume you are asking how it is we can claim our bank charges back. Although your right we all signed terms and conditions that really doesnt matter in this instance.

The charges are deemed unlawful because under contract law if one party who has entered into a contract breaches the contract then the other party is only allowed to charge an amount that is a fair reflection of their costs.

It is clear that the amounts charged by banks, credit card companies are not a fair reflection of their costs and therefore is a punative charge and consequently illegal.

Hope this clarifies it for you if not feel free to post further questions!!

Cheers

Woolfie

jimfishybob · 29th June 2006, 11:17

I understand that, but, if the bank argues that there was no breach of contract and they were simply supplying a service how does section 15 apply if we agreed the charges in advance?

woolfie · 29th June 2006, 11:25

Hi again,

not 100% sure of the answer to this so I have pm'd a mod to have a look.

Cheers

Woolfie

pmhread · 29th June 2006, 11:31

I'm not a mod but I think this may have already been answered in the FAQ's section:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...nce-notes.html

I would say the proof is in the pudding really.. The banks would only have to successfully defend 1 case to prove their point but they haven't.... wonder why that is?

reload · 29th June 2006, 12:03

I believe the phrase 'non-negotiated contract' is relevent...?

Movingon · 29th June 2006, 12:11

Yes, you agreed the price in advance, but as reload says you were given no leave to negotiate the price. Added to that, you have "only just discovered" the portion of the SoGaSA 1984 which refers to the price being "reasonable" and therefore are challenging the price as unreasonable in light of your new knowledge.

Finally, if the charges are for a service, the bank will be pleased to demonstrate the work required and the cost to them in providing this alleged service and therefore demonstrate that the price is reasonable.

Incidentally one of the defences submitted has been that the charge is for the advancement of further credit; this cannot be the case in the matter of "Returned Items" (bounced cheques, unpaid DD's etc) as no further credit was offered except to pay their charges!

jimfishybob · 29th June 2006, 12:26

Fair enough, though on the final point, (and i'm playing devils advocate here, I love this site, especially after my refund this morning), if I buy a can of beans do I have to know how much that can of beans cost the shop? Or in the case of solicitors does it cost them £60 to send a letter?

Movingon · 29th June 2006, 12:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimfishybob

Fair enough, though on the final point, (and i'm playing devils advocate here, I love this site, especially after my refund this morning), if I buy a can of beans do I have to know how much that can of beans cost the shop? Or in the case of solicitors does it cost them £60 to send a letter?

If you went to the shop and asked for a can of beans and the guy said "fifteen pounds sixty five please" you would then be faced with a choice of whether or not to proceed and close the contract. If you chose to do the deal you are accepting the price; despite the fact you know you could go to a shop ten yards down the street and pay 27p. However with a bank, you know that ALL the banks are charging between £20 and £40 for their default occurrences. You literally have no choice; you can either conclude the contract with this overcharging bank or another overcharging bank. So, yes, it is reasonable for you to ask them to demonstrate that the price is reasonable.

jimfishybob · 29th June 2006, 12:36

Agreed.

Thanks.

Case closed.

whataboutyeah · 29th June 2006, 13:42

I was under the impression that if the banks try to defend with the 'service' argument then you aproach it with goods and services s15.

If no price has been agreed then a reasonable charge must be applied, and reasonable is surley the cost to the supplier plus a mark up for profit. So, the cost of the service, this has to be very small, considering it is an automated system and I don't even get letters anymore, and then mark up, are you allowed to mark up this amount, I assume not, but I am unsure here?

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