Advice needed on business accounting software

[BankFodder]

Does anybody know of some simple business and accounting software that can access and download pay pal statements and other bank statements online?

[comanche]

I'm sure that Sage Line 50 can meet the bank requirement but I don't think it could cope with Paypal. Also it's quite expensive (about £500). Their entry level Instant Accounts package doesn't seem to have this sort of functionality.

[bram stoker]

Most accounting packages will import a csv file. You just need to download your paypal into csv, tart it up to the correct format and code it, then import it. Sage line 50 is quite pricey, try Sage Instant Accounts from £110. I can get you a discounted package if you go for Sage. Probably with IRIS too if you go for theirs.

[HD]

Sage has definite advantages if you need to use an accountant as they will accept all yout a/cs in Sage files-and as it saves them time they should charge you less. It can be very pricey if you want a legit version though.

[Switch]

I use Sage Line 50 and can recommend it.

Although a little pricey when compared with other accounting software packages but you get what you pay for.

[BankFodder]

Thanks
What about Quckbooks? Both Paypal and many banks seem to output data in qb format - also I have a copy of it

[bram stoker]

Quickbooks is good too, although not as good as sage. As an accountant I tend to like packages that can export to csv files, so that I can import them into our own software. If your accountants work the same way, they'll be able to do so with quickbooks.

[Spiceskull]

Any package that imports/exports CSV will always be very flexible...it also means that your data can talk to everyone else...

[bram stoker]

Sage is usually the accountants preferred package, whereas quickbooks may be easier for the layman to use on a day to day basis.

Anyone with any day to day experience of quickbooks got any comments?

[bankoff]

Hi Vampiress

Firstly may I say your Spreadsheet is excellent, the new one.

I have used quickbooks and sage for about 10 years. I didn't like quickbooks as much as sage, but think that is because it is a very vast programme and there is no end to what you can do with it, including amending any errors.

There is a smaller version of Quickbooks called Quicken, which is ideal for a very small business and personal accounts. Have you heard of it? Think both of these can import csv files. Have used Quicken for years, its only about £50, and you can do VAT on it.

Accountants do prefer Sage, but its more expensive, they do an Instant Accounts package which unless you are creating lots of invoices suits most people with a small business, don't you think?

Have not had any experience of Iris, but a friend of mine uses it for payroll and says its vg.

[bram stoker]

Many thanks Bankoff.

Erm.. *whispers* I hate Quicken. Sorry, it may be user friendly, but I've never been able to get what I wanted out of it as an accountant. Hence, the client who used it had a big bill. Mind you, he was pretty useless with using it anyway.

There are two other systems I haven't mentioned as I'm not really experienced with them, but BF, your accountant might be. They are called TAS and MYOB. I'd go for MYOB purely for the name.

[NeilP]

I've used Quickbooks for about 6 years and prefer it to Sage as you can amend errors (which as i am not an accountant, is quite often with Journal Entries etc).

Am i right in saying that most Accountants prefer the Sage products because they are the industry standard and therefore they know how to use it - a bit like computers and Microsoft v Apple.

I am sure than you can download a trial version of Quickbooks, if not let me know and i will try and get one off my old accountant who initially showed me the product with one.

[fivelaws]

Bankoff : Quicken is dead. After Intuit (of Quickbook infamy) took them over, they took the "difficult decision" to kill it. (in the UK at least - I think it still lives on in the US).

Sage is a neutral choice. The reason why so many accountant support Sage is because (a) they are nearly all resellers, so they make a few quid from it, but more importantly, the practice computer systems the majority of them use for preparing accounts have direct Sage import utilities, making it quicker and easier for them to process customers accounts. Personally, I don't much like either the product or the company (and I can say that from a position of strength - I am an authorised Sage developer...)

Having said which ... sadly ... Sage is a good a program as any other for the same reasons we put up with shonky Microsoft products - there is such a huge installed base, help and advice is widely available and cheap. Version 12 is actually quite pretty, though the "workflow" features are as flexible as reinforced concrete.

As Vamp says, TAS Books is a bloody good option. It is extremely dumbed down and ideal for people who wouldn't know a control nominal if it hit them in the face. Same goes for MYOB (Mind Your Own Business - sweet!).

The only funny thing about all of them, Sage included, is that they don't actually calculate VAT in accordance with the VAT Guide. I've argued 'til I'm blue in the face with Sage about this and they just say "well, 50 bajillion customers can't be wrong". (They are!)

[bankoff]

Hi Fivelaws

Interesting to see Quicken is dead, better go over to quickbooks then, but as the previous reply said it is easy to manipulate or should I say correct, don't know if accountants like this.

As you are probably an expert in VAT, what do you make of this thread. A friend of mine in the VAT office said what BOS are doing is wrong. Am waiting to see the result of the claim to find out what the VAT office are going to do about them.

VAT, Penalty Charges and Invoices

[bram stoker]

Originally Posted by fivelaws

The only funny thing about all of them, Sage included, is that they don't actually calculate VAT in accordance with the VAT Guide. I've argued 'til I'm blue in the face with Sage about this and they just say "well, 50 bajillion customers can't be wrong". (They are!)

Can you elaborate further on this comment for me please? I'm very intrigued by your comment.

[fivelaws]

Bankoff : With regards VAT on bank charges, my understanding is that the majority of financial services are exempt from VAT. The argument with charges is essentially that they are disbursements - the bank is recharging the customer the cost of their "losses", without any profit. As such, they don't have to charge VAT. Another good example of disbursments in action is the humble MOT certificate; if you have one done by an MOT station, the can't charge VAT, but if you take the car to a third-party (maybe for a pre-MOT service) who then takes it for an MOT, they can only charge you the same price they pay without incurring VAT. (That might seem odd, but "traders" generally get a healthy discount from their local VTS, paying maybe £10 less than the general public - if they don't recharge *exactly* their cost, the whole of the cost becomes liable for VAT.

Of course, if it turns out that the banks are making a profit on the charges, there would be an argument, just like the MOT charge, that they aren't disbursements and would/should be liable for VAT on the whole value, this would mean that when they charge £25, this would be treated as VAT inclusive, so £3.72 of the charge is VAT which would be owed to HMCE. WHich? reckon the banks made £4.7bn profit on charges ... (that's £700m of VAT payable).

I've just found the code that covers financial services (Notice 701/49 - Mar 2002). It doesn't say anything about "admin fees" being exempt for credit card companies (section 5.3) - only current, deposit and savings bank accounts (section 2.10). So the CC companies are potentially (?) in the wrong by fact, not just under the disbursements rule...?


Vamp : The most obvious test is to put 2 lines onto an invoice, each for £33.33 and then a third line for £33.34. Total goods = £100.00 but Sage calculates the VAT line-by-line and comes up with the figure of £17.49 for the VAT. This is plain wrong, VAT *must* be calculated on the sum of the goods in each VAT band. It may only be 1p ... but it's still wrong.

[bram stoker]

I think you can specify a different VAT code on each line of entry, but I may be wrong. Thanks for that, I'll look out for it.

Re your arguement on Bank charges being standard rated if they are a service; this is extremely interesting and I'm going to look into it.