Tax Credit Overpayment

[longday]

Hi all,

I had a quick look for a section on Tax Credits, but couldn't find one, so hopefully you'll excuse me for posting in here!

We are one of the thousands of families being chased for repayment of TC overpayments. Initially, they wanted £6600 back, made up of 2004 & 2005 payments. After speaking to them, they advised us to fill in an appeal form and send it off. We duly did this, and after about a month had a reply that they had cocked up the 2004 payment, and we didn't owe them that. We phoned to ask about the 2005 amount, and were told that it would come in a separate letter. We kept getting demanding leters for thsi amount, and every time phoned up and were told that we would hear about the appeal in due course.

Finally, just before Christmas last year, we had a pay-up-or-else letter, and phoned them again. This time we wre told that they had just become aware that you couldn't appeal multiple years on one appeal, and we would have to re-appeal. We did this, and received a letter confirming that they had received our appeal and we would hear in due course.

On 25th January, we received court paperwork, claiming the amount of £3931. We spoke to the CAB, who advised us to speak to the IR and get the case withdrawn, as it was still under appeal, and we hadn't exhausted that process yet. IR refused to do so, and just advised us to enter a defence to the claim, stating what had gone on over the last year. We've done that, and had acknowledgement from the Court that this has been passed back to the IR to prove their case. And then finally, on the 9th February we had notification that our appeal had failed - the reason given that we had not notified them of our final earnings for the year in question (This was done by phone, almost exactly a year earlier - to somebody called Dermot - anybody else spoken to him?). This letter was dated 23rd January 2007 - exactly the same date that the court papers were issued.


Am I getting paranoid here, or does anybody else feel that the Tax Credit People really haven't got a clue what they're doing?

[des_celt]

You're not paranoid, they really are out to get you...................

And me and I'm beginning to suspect thousands of others.

I regret the day that I ever started claiming tax credits. I wish I had just struggled on. I should have known better than to get financially involved with a government agency!

We were alledgedly overpaid and appealled and lost the appeal, however since finding this site I have discovered that I went through the wrong process, however now my case is with the debt recovery section and there is nothing I can do about it. I can't even speak to them anymore, I just get so angry. My husband has to deal with them. He rang them yesterday and they were asking for all of our assets!!!! Apparently in order so that they can strip us of our "assets" in order to get back the money that they say we owe them.

This is the GOVERNMENT threatening/bullying to "asset strip" us . If I wasn't living in this I would not believe it.

The thing that makes me really angry is that I followed every single one of their processes, did everything by the book, believed everything I was told over the phone, assumed that what I was being told was at least in the vague area of being correct and still got shafted.

Sorry this has turned into a rant (told you I was mad!).

However I have decided that I am now going to issue them a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) and then take my case to my MP. I really really do not want to roll over to these people.

Good luck with your fight longday!

Des

[longday]

I've always been cynical of this government, even before they got in. It does seem like yet another scam from the masters of deception - launch a headline-making scheme to supposedly help those most in need, then do everything that you possible can to get it all back again.

I've gone over my figures - for the year in question I earned just over £11000, and received tax credits of £3931. Apparently I wasn't entitled to any of it though. I've had enough, I will never again take anything from this shower that they want to give - I just know that they will only try to con it back again.

[bazak1]

i think the Tax Credit office is in the same corridor as the C S A one.
we was on family tax credit for about three years, and every year i received 8 or 9 identical letters and so did my partner, and every year the same thing happened, letters that spoke of us being overpayed, then ones saying we could claim for the next year etc, etc.
in the end my wages went up and they stopped our tax credits altogether, which took some getting used to but we coped and now, because we only live on our wages plus child benefit, with the smallest bit of child tax credit, it's a lot easier because we know what we have coming in and it doesnt change that much so we never have the dreaded "you owe us £xxxxxx because we overpayed you " letters anymore.
i dont really know why it was changed from family credit, but there was obviously a reason. hope they decide to tell us what that reason is one day. until then, keep smiling !

[longday]

Now I'm getting really confused - the reason that they are reclaiming 04/05 payments is because they say that I hadn't informed them of my income for that year. Today, I've had the final award notiication for 05/06, and further down that form it refers to the year 04/05, where it states that my declared earnings were £12842, which tallies up with my tax return. So how can one department say that I haven't informed them, and the other one say that I have, but we're still going to take you to court?

I used to work for BT, and I thought the inter-departmental communication there was crap, but the civil service really takes some beating!

[lnmrobinson]

I'm glad i found this thread, sorry to hijack but does anyone know if there is any correct procedure to follow for appealing.
ive got my form to fill out to appeal but don't know where to start with what to say to them, does it have to be in any legal terminology?

[longday]

Hi,

When we filled out our appeal, we avoided using any long words, and basically explained that we had given them all the information that they had asked for, they had told us what we would get, and we believed them. After all, how are we supposed to be able to calculate what Tax Credits we should get?

Keep it simple, stick to the facts, back it up with dates, times, people's names where possible.

Under their own procedures, if you lose at appeal, you have the right to appeal to a higher body. You also have the right to have any overpayments deducted from future TC payments. When we had our notice that the appeal was rejected, they stated that we could not appeal any further, and had to pay the money back immediately in full. We've subsequently written to MP, PM, and the TC office themselves to ask them to explain why they aren't following their own procedures, but have yet to receive a reply. Still, Tony's been busy writing 1.8m emails just recently

[lnmrobinson]

Hi, thanks for that
I know my appeal is going to be simple but Im not sure if I can back it up, for a start ive only had the one letter demanding repayment, had no details on just the amount and a phone no to arrange payment.
Ive spoke to 4 different people so far, 2 of which have given me different dates to which the apparent overpayment relates, so how can i appeal when they dont even know what period its for? the other thing is, after we stopped claiming we moved house, according to them they sent us something that we had to send wage slips etc so they could work out if they had paid us correctly in the previous year, we never received such request from them, but if they didnt receive any info from us how do they know they overpaid us? ive offered to send whatever p60/wage slips for the year in question but they wont accept them.

My argument is how do they know they overpaid us when they dont know which period it relates to and they say they never had info from us after to confirm if they paid us correctly?

how do we ask for an S A R from them?

[longday]

For the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request), I've got an address filed away - I'll dig it out tomorrow and post it for you.

As regards the overpayment, there's no easy answer. As you've already found out, each telephone call nets you a different answer - if they don't know, how the hell are we supposed to?

You'd think in these days of computers, they'd be able to tie in your SA tax return (if you do one) with the Tax Credits system, so that you only had to submit the info once, but no, that's far too easy, and would probably result in a few IR employees having to find gainful employment elsewhere, much easier to have duplicate / triplicate staff all over the Revenue to take the same information several times. I suppose they need a staff of thousands to man the (un)Helpline, to answer all the queries from people totally bamboozled by the system that they've created.

Sorry, I'm tired, and letting my rants out - not helpful to you, but I'll try harder next time

[des_celt]

Hi, here is a link to the information that you need to send the tax credit people a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request)
HM Revenue & Customs: Data Protection

Just open the pdf when you get there.

Also if you have a look at the other tax credit thread, there are some hints and tips about how you appeal and indeed whether or not you actually appeal or dispute.

When we appealed I thought we ticked all the boxes i.e. informed them every step of the way of every change in circumstance, checked our awards and also they seemed to have underpaid us one year which then turned into (the same amount) an overpayment the next year, so I disputed that. However we just got a flat refusal of the appeal and a letter saying that we had no further leave to appeal.

I was like yourself, different answer to the same question depending on who I spoke to, what time of day it was, whether it was raining and if the day had a y in it.

I haven't yet taken it to my MP, I'm going to compile everything from my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) and then hunt around a bit on the net to find any tax credit experts that could maybe help me.

Have you had any response from your MP Longday?

Cheers

[longday]

Originally Posted by des_celt

Have you had any response from your MP Longday?

Cheers

A big fat zero so far I'm afraid

I'm curious though what happens if the court case fizzles out though - They have until the end of this coming week to respond to the defence that we entered. If they don't, and the case is hoofed out (or 'stayed
as the court puts it), where does that leave us with the original alledged overpayment - is that the end of it, or do we have to go back to arguing the point with the TCO directly? I'm not refusing to pay - if they can prove that on earnings of £12800 for the year we were ineligible for the TC of 3931, then fine, we'll negotiate how we pay it back. However, I can't quite see that being the case somehow:confuse d::co nfused:

[Clippy]

I am so glad that I read this tonight. I am also fighting the tax credit office for an overpayment. After a year of waiting 3 months at a time for replies to my letters I have now been informed that I have agreed to pay back 30 pounds a month which is a lie. My appeal failed even though it was their fault I was overpaid. I have now handed the whole thing over to my MP. She has written to them on my behalf so I will keep you posted.

[abo999]

The tax credits people seem a bit bonkers to me it has to be said. We get the bare minimum off them, and my wife and I get several letters each over the course of the year reminding us of this fact!

[longday]

The mystery deepens!

After we had the court papers, we filed a defence, laying out the facts as stated above. This was acknowledged on 30th January, the TCO given 28 days to prove their case, and today the court confirmed that the TCO hadn't written back to prove their case, and that it is now 'stayed'.

Any idea where this leaves us with the TCO? Are we still going to have to go through the whole rigmarole again, or is this the end of the matter? Does this mean that the TCO now accept our version of events (I think I probably already know the answer to that one!)

Thanks

Longday

[gizmo111]

This may be of interest to you

tax credit overpayment

[screeny]

That's a really useful site - thanks!

I too have been slapped with an alleged overpayment by the TCO to the tune of £3,500.They wrote informing me of this about 2 years ago - I responded via letter disputing the overpayment on the grounds that I supplied them with all of the required info and I could no be held accountable for administrative incompetence at their end. They replied with a standard 'we don't accept responsibilty' letter and I've heard nothing from them since, even refusing to fill in the forms for the past to years just in case they cocked up again.

As I said, that was 2 years ago - today, I got home to find a note from a HMRCC employee who had called around my house to 'discuss' repayment of the overpaid amount! Anyone got any advice on how I should proceed with this?

I've had a look through the link that gizmo kindly provided and it indicates that I should not, under any circumstances, rearrange a meeting or discuss repayment, but, instead, inform him that the amount is in 'dispute'. I've downloaded the official TC846(RRR) form & am busy filling it out now. Obviously I'm a bit concerned that they actually sent someone around to my house rather than contacting me by letter or telephone in the first instance.

[Gary29]

We have just got a letter stating our claim for the year 05/06, we know that, they sent it to us god knows how many times.

[batty_uk]

Originally Posted by screeny

That's a really useful site - thanks!

I too have been slapped with an alleged overpayment by the TCO to the tune of £3,500.They wrote informing me of this about 2 years ago - I responded via letter disputing the overpayment on the grounds that I supplied them with all of the required info and I could no be held accountable for administrative incompetence at their end. They replied with a standard 'we don't accept responsibilty' letter and I've heard nothing from them since, even refusing to fill in the forms for the past to years just in case they cocked up again.

As I said, that was 2 years ago - today, I got home to find a note from a HMRCC employee who had called around my house to 'discuss' repayment of the overpaid amount! Anyone got any advice on how I should proceed with this?

I've had a look through the link that gizmo kindly provided and it indicates that I should not, under any circumstances, rearrange a meeting or discuss repayment, but, instead, inform him that the amount is in 'dispute'. I've downloaded the official TC846(RRR) form & am busy filling it out now. Obviously I'm a bit concerned that they actually sent someone around to my house rather than contacting me by letter or telephone in the first instance.