Mess up with housing benefit and council tax benefit

[lynzfa]

My mum recieved a letter today from the local council abouth her housing benefit,to say they were stopping her housing benefit due to an error on her claim.She was claiming housing benefit as she gets disability allowance for my brother,they were paying it for the las 3 years and have now said shw was overpaid as she only has 1 child that is disabled and not 2.She has never claimed for 2 disabled children and when she rang them regarding this they said it was an error on their system,but as she was still overpaid she still has to pay it back,so they have put a hold on her benefit until it is all paid back.Due to this though she is now £980 in arrears with her rent which her landlord is wanting asap.Where does she stand on this the council have told her she cannot appeal and there is nothing she can do about it.any advice would be great.

[julie1961]

Has your mother thought about applying to the Benifits agency to see if she could get help from them as a hardship payment? Every council handles things in there own way so one council may say they will take it back a little at a time & another like yours want it asap. ring the DWP & see if they can help her even if its a loan I am am sure it will be better than trying to find such a high amount in one go.

	Hardship By and large the "harship" provision in the FSA waiver is a myth which is intended to create a sense that the banking industry is sufficiently well-intentioned to act fairly towards its customers even though their right of access to the courts has been blocked. In fact there are very few guidelines as to procedure and very little definition of "hardship". One unfortunate spin off is that many people in difficulty get their hopes up and go to considerable lengths to plead hardship to their bank in order to get a refund or partial refund of their bank charges only to be refused. Neither the courts nor the FOS have the power to order a bank to make a charges refund on the basis of hardship. We hear of some people obtaining a partial refund quite easily. Others have obtained money by being very persistent - but mostly we hear that people are refused. Even benefits claimants do not automatically receive hardship refunds. By all means try to get a bank charges refund on the basis of hardship - but don't bank on it!

[Marksgirlie]

If the council made the error, they absolutely are not allowed to try and reclaim the money and your mother has every right to refuse to pay it. You must get to a citizen's advice bureau and get help with this asap, especially if they have actually admitted it was their error.

My husband and I were overpaid about £400 housing benefit due to an error on their side. We didn't pay back a penny- in fact they didn't even ask us to, but admitted in the letter they sent to inform us that as it was their mistake they wouldn't be expecting repayment. Now all benefits are administered by Capita, this definitely is not just because we have a different council to you.

BTW my mum used to work for the DSS until 2 years ago, in the over- payments section. She agrees, their mistake,their loss.

I am outraged on your Mum's behalf and really hope she can win this one!

[beccysmum]

Lynzfa

The council can try to recover the debt even if it is their fault, if they believe that the mistake was obvious to the person claiming housing benefit. However, just because they THINK it's obvious it does not mean it is.

It's very worthwhile to write a letter of Appeal, stating you wish to go to the Appeals Tribunal. You don't physically have to go there - it can all be done by post, and the chances of winning and getting the overpayment written off are very good. Your mum should make an appeal within a calendar month of the date she received the letter saying she was overpaid, but it can be made up to 13 months after the date of notification.

Did the council tell her in writing that she can not appeal against the decision? They can not decide this - only the independent Appeals Tribunal can say whether an appeal can proceed or not. She should definitely take this further - feel free to PM me if you need an assistance with this. (I have worked in Housing Benefits for 20 years, most recently as a trainer).

Good luck!

[beccysmum]

Forgot to also say that once she appeals they must STOP recovering this debt until the appeal has bee heard.

[cheddar]

What does it say on her award notice? If it shows 2 disabled children on her claim then they will try to say that she would have been notified of it. Just like with Tax Credits they tell you to check your award notice and if anything is wrong on it then you need to inform them immediately.

Have a look at her old awards or if she doesn't have them make a request under Data Protection Act if necessary for the backdated award notices.

[beccysmum]

Also bear in mind that some notification letters (also known as award notices!) may just state if you wish a full breakdown please ask for further details. If the notice states this it is dubious to say the least. You should initially ask for copies of all notification letters, as these will be provided free of charge - you may have to pay if you make your request under the Data Protection Act.

Also, although an award notice may mention a disabled child premium it does not follow that your mother would understand this. People who work in Housing Benefits have difficulty following notification award letters, so Joe Public does not have much chance at all.

[cheddar]

I see some LA's award notices (as we called them where i worked) are very clear i take it that some are not then, I only ever saw ours and anyone would have clearly notice one extra person or premium on the claim. I didn't realise that some LA's donm't have breakdown, I tihnk that is something that needs to be changed.

We often saw cases of people getting awards with people on them who had moved out etc but failing to tell us, and also ones that were deemed complicated and each should be judged on its own merit and that of the claimant as well.

I am not pointing fingers nor laying blame, I am merely saying what they may try and do. I also said only make a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) if necessary.

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[beccysmum]

Hi Cheddar

Apologies if that sounded a bit short - I was just about to go to bed and thought I'd do a quick reply! Yes, you're quite right that a good local authority will provide proper notices, which detail everything on them in plain English, but an awful lot don't.

I've just finished working at one council that's gone onto a new housing benefits system, and they binned the first month's letters instead of sending them out as they didn't have time to check them! In a years time, if the claim is subject to intervention, who will remember/admit that the customer probably didn't get an award notice?

Also councils have lost appeals on the basis that a notification/award letter is not clear enough for a layperson to understand.

Where you mention that something needs to be changed about LA's who don't have breakdown - you're dead right, but the legislation already exists. They ignore it until a claimant challenges them, and as we know the majority of claimants don't have the knowledge to decide whether a notice is correct or not.

[alibobsy]

I'm not even sure you could get copies of your previous award notices, you certainly couldn't get them from the DWP as the computer generates a system award notice that is never seen on the actual benefit section. You could get a copy of the current award as the system can be prompted to issue one. They could give you a written breakdown of the previous years awards,but not actual copies of the originals. Would housing benefit keep copies? I know they don't use the same systems so would be interested to know, just nosy lol.
Interestingly years ago when benefit award notices were handwritten a carbon copy would have been kept in your file, thats progress for you
ali x