Tax Credit Overpayment

[sinking_fast]

Originally Posted by hannah8686

Hiya, i sent off my appeal a couple of weeks ago. today i recieved courts papers. the amount is for nearly 4 grand so no chance of paying it back.

I havent even had correspondance from the tax ofice for about 6 months and couldnt get hold of the 'collections department' ever to talk to them about it.

if anyone had a direct number for the overpayments team/ collections department that would help as i am asking my MP to ask them to cancel the proceedings until the appeals proceedure has been completed.

please help!!!!!!!!!

was that your first appeal?? have you had a letter telling you that they intend to take you to court? if they have sent a letter saying they are taking court action there is a phone number on there, because they have to offer you the right to offer them payments, or to appeal, plus if you have an appeal in, they can't do anything until you hear if the appeal is for or againist (this must be in writing) i have been appealing againist my 03 overpayment since 04 and it is only just at the ajudicates stage now, they sent me a court action letter, i just phoned them explained that it i was appealing sent them a copy of my appeal to the tax office, and they stopped all court action, until i hear about the outcome, sounds to me like they are'nt helping, everyone who thinks they don't owe the money has a right to appeal. please let me know how you get on

[Jhawc24]

I apologise if I'm hijacking anyone's thread here, just hoping it's a general thread.

My daughter has received a notice to pay an overpayment of just over £3000 from tax credits for year 2003/2004, for when she was with her long since ex. It is in joint names. However, she is struggling finding any correspondence she has kept for this year so have made an S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request. She always kept in touch with them of any changes. She wrote saying she wished to appeal against the decision and they have written back saying she cannot! She was not aware there was an overpayment made, so why can't she appeal? Is that right can they refuse to allow her to appeal?

Any advice kindly accepted, Joan.

[sinking_fast]

as far as i know, they can't refuse an appeal, cause she didn't know about the overpayment, when they notified her about the overpayment, there should of been a COP1 (code of practice) booklet, which tells you about appealing if you think the decision is wrong (about the overpayment), I would phone the tax office and ask for a COP1 notifing them that you are going to appeal againist the overpayment, sending a S.A.R is good as well so she has as much info to but into her appeal, the tax office can't say she has no right to appeal unless she was notified of the overpayment ages ago (like 2 years ago) and she hasn't done anything about it, i would also notify the tax office of her ex's address so they can chase him up as well, and if she hasn't got this, then shes got to fight this herself i'm afraid, its sh*t that there's been a joint claim but only 1 person is having to pay the overpayment back, they shouldn't be allowed to get away with it, but they seem to be, help this helps, you can only but try i'm afraid sorry

[xipetotec46]

Originally Posted by lynzfa

i have recieved another letter yesterday about my tax credit overpayment which im guessing means i did not win the appeal.they have said i have until the 22nd november to pay the 988 in full or i will be took to court. i dont have that sort of money to pay in full.what can i do.

The IR overpaid me by £270, I had residency of my grandson for 4 years, I gradually gave back one day at a time to his mum as reward for keeping off drugs, finally gave back residency and informed the IR same day that I was no longer entitled to Child Tax Credit for my grandson, they carried on paying, then I got a demand for overpayment repayment, needless to say I told the IR where to shove it and that I would write in to ask them to revue it, it was turned down and cannot appeal as their rules are is that there is no right of appeal, Had a letter from them informing me I had until the 12th December 2006 to pay or they will take me to court, I phoned them to say don't keep sending threatening letters, just take me to court, I am awaiting a court date, my guess is that they won't pursue it, for such a pittance, but I am armed with lots of info about overpayments, if they do, especially stuff that has been said in parliament by the Paymaster General and the Parliamentary Ombudsman and MP's. Since tax credits were introduced more than £2 billion each year was overpaid, total to date £4.2 Billion to date it has cost £8.2 billion to recover the overpayments, if the IR had not pursued overpayments from the start the Treasury would have £4 billion extra still in their kitty, ironic dont you think that it cost twice as much to claim the overpayments back in administrative costs, however to date nothing from the IR yet but I will have my day in court, anyway you can't get blood out of a stone.
Barry

[Ros2710]

Hi Barry

Trouble with Tax Credits is that when you ring up you only ever speak to someone at a call centre - you don't speak directly to the Tax Credit Office.
Call Centre then tell Tax Credit Office to amend your records and often payments are still being made while records are being amended.

Although this doesn't normaly take long, If your next payment had already been sent for payment to the bank, even if bank is notified imediately, they cannot usually recall payments going through the bank system.

This often results in payments being received after the date of cancellation/change which are wrong. Remember also that payments of Tax Credits are made in advance.

So, if you cancelled say on 2nd February, and your normal tax credit payment was due on 5th February for that month, you would still probably get that payment. The payments are in advance so you have received a months payment for which you are not entitled.
The Tax Credit Office will say you had money you weren't entiled to, and either should have given it back at the time or should give it back now.

Do you have any evidence that there was any error/fault by Tax Credit Office?

Ros

[sinking_fast]

Originally Posted by xipetotec46

The IR overpaid me by £270, my guess is that they won't pursue it, for such a pittance

my auntie had an overpayment of £88 and they took her to court so i wouldn't think that cause its a small amount they won't take you to court.

Originally Posted by xipetotec46

I got a demand for overpayment repayment, needless to say I told the IR where to shove it and that I would write in to ask them to revue it, it was turned down and cannot appeal as their rules are is that there is no right of appeal,

ask them for a COP1 (code of practise booklet) has all your appeals and who to appeal to in there, i think your mistake was telling them " i would write in to ask them to review it" don't tell them what your going to do cause they're going to say you have no right to appeal, they just want there money and can't be bothered going through all the appeals, i had it written in black and white that i didn't have any more rights to appeal, which wasn't true and i am now still appealing overpayment from 03.

Originally Posted by xipetotec46

but I am armed with lots of info about overpayments, if they do, especially stuff that has been said in parliament by the Paymaster General and the Parliamentary Ombudsman and MP's. Since tax credits were introduced more than £2 billion each year was overpaid, total to date £4.2 Billion to date it has cost £8.2 billion to recover the overpayments, if the IR had not pursued overpayments from the start the Treasury would have £4 billion extra still in their kitty, ironic dont you think that it cost twice as much to claim the overpayments back in administrative costs, however to date nothing from the IR yet but I will have my day in court, anyway you can't get blood out of a stone.

if it goes to court, unless like ros says and you have evidence that the tax office is in the wrong, you will have to pay court costs as well, and as for blood out of stone, they will stop any tax credits your entitled to, and if you don't get tax credits they'll take for your earnings, and if you don't work they can take money from any benefits (apart from child benefit i think) so they will get money from you, becaue of the amount i'd just offer them money per week, i know its not right but, for £270 i just don't think its worth it unless you can prove the overpayment is there fault, if you can good luck and keep us updated with what happens

[xipetotec46]

Originally Posted by Ros2710

Hi Barry

Do you have any evidence that there was any error/fault by Tax Credit Office?

Ros

Hi Ros No evidence and it is only recently I found it was only one payment involved, if the tax office had said look we paid you because we couldn't stop the payment and we know you told us about your grandson so can we have our money back please, I would have wrote them a cheque straight away, but they have been like the Gestapo over this and it is like a red rag to a bull to me, I got my MP involved also plus the stress my wife was having because of it, if I lose which I expect to, I will try to pay them back at a £1 a week, but honestly I don't think it will get that far.
Will pm when I have more news.
Barry

[xipetotec46]

i know its not right but, for £270 i just don't think its worth it unless you can prove the overpayment is there fault, if you can good luck and keep us updated with what happens [/quote]

Hi
How did your Aunt fare over the £88 did she have to pay it back or did she win, the only evidence I have is the record of the phone call I made to them at 2.15 on 16th November 2004 about not being entitled to residency after that date and time, they confirm that it is on the Computer, I have now asked for transcripts of the conversations I have made to the IR regarding this overpayment, so I may take the transcripts to court if it does go there.
Barry

[sinking_fast]

she lost and is currently paying it back at £2 a month, but have just spoke to her and she didn't actually pay court costs as she wasn't prepared to go to court over £88 and have over £100 in court costs wacked on as well, she said its not because she wasn't in the right its just that she knew she wouldn't win againist them she had the backing of our local MP as well, so its totally up to you, but i do know that aas long as you can offer them 50p or more a week they have to take it, they might be arsey and ask for an incoming outgoing sheet if they think you can pay more, but otherwise theres not a lot else they can do, if your agreeing to pay something, i'd defo ring and request a COP1 though what have you got to lose?? let us know how your getting on though

[Ros2710]

Hi Barry,
Well its up to you if you want to pursue it like you do, but as others have said you will have to pay costs if you lose, and looks like you might as there seem to be no grounds for appeal in your case.

I agree they are a faceless and uncaring lot. (I used to work for the Tax Enquiry Centre and saw lots of people re overpayments)

What you can do is ask for a time to pay agreement and offer to pay so much a week.

Ros

[Ros2710]

Joan,

Why was you daughter overpaid tax credits in the first place? They must have given some reason.
When did she spilt from partner?
Did she tell TCO immediately of split?
Has she got copies of awards for 2003/4?
Ros

[dori2o]

Best advice I can give has already been given

Phone and request a COP 1 form, however, you do not then need to wait for it to arrive, the COP 1 is available for download on the HMRC website. But by requestiong one from them the record will be updated with this request.

With I and E forms, lok around the site and also on Martin Lewises site,there are good tip to filling these in and manipulate it to suit what type of payment you want to make.

I would also advise that if you have no solid proof, don't kid yourself into thinking that you will win in court, the Revenue always get the upper hand in court, and you will end up with extra to pay back due to the fees.

As I say, the above has been mentioned before, but thought I would put in my 2 pence worth.

[Ros2710]

Joan

when did your daughter get her notice of overpayment.
When you say you can't appeal, how do you know? Have you already tried by letter, or is it just on the phone?

Ros

[Jhawc24]

Hi Ros,

Sorry this gets a little confusing. She got a notice saying she was not entitled to ctc & wtc for year 2005/2006 addressed to her and her ex.
The same day under a different cover she got a demand for repayment of overpayment of ctc&wtc for year 2003/2004 again to herself and ex.

She split with ex in May 2004. She has always informed tax credits of any changes, as she did on this occassion.

She cannot find any award letters for 2003/2004 nor any notices advising of her overpayment, etc. Therefore have sent in S.A.R - (Subject Access Request).

When she got the tax credit demand and over notice she wrote advising them she wanted to appeal against this decision but put 2005/2006 in error! They returned her letter stating her appeal was invalid because the notice reflects the fact that she was not entitled with her ex! therefore meaning she can still have a claim in her own right for that year. So why they sent her this I don't know and their letter suggest technical reasons!

Aside from that she still has this demand for 2003/2004 which she had received no notice of previously. Only her ex was employed this year and she is in the process of getting copies of his P60's so we can put together an appeal - I have downloaded form off HMRC website. Plus with the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) this should provide us with the dates and times she was in contact with them re: any changes, etc.

Regards Joan.

[sinking_fast]

sounds like your going along the right lines, you'll have a fight on your hands (they don't like saying their wrong) but just stick in there keep us updated?

i got another demand yesterday, i'm on such good terms with the edinburgh inland rev debt collection place now, think they're going to get me a clocking in card hehe have been appealing againist this overpayment since september last year but as usually my case worker at the tax credit office hasn't informed the debt collection department so they started court action, when i phoned to speak to my case worker surprise surprise she was off, and the cheek of it, i was told to phone the debt collection place and suspend my case cause of the appeal, good job i know a few of them, cause they had to just take my word for it, they did ask if i wanted to complain, but to be honest i really can't be bothered with the stress, and hassle, also i'm querying/fighting 3 overpayments already. We keep everyone updated though

[tevion]

Originally Posted by lynzfa

i recieved court papers this morning from northampton court.the inland revenue are taking me to court for the overpayment.it is now £1008.17 including court costs.i dont know what to do now.i cant afford to pay this and it wasnt my mistake in the first place

dont worry about it its only county court just offer what u can afford no more. if they dont accept [edit]. if they ask u 2 go to court dont go. dont tell where u work and if they send baliffs just dot let him in. baliffs dont have power of entry attached to warrents. just tell them to do one. dont let anyone intimidate you.