HELP - Solicitor is in control of estate.

[Stuart Green]

Hi Guys,

I was wondering if you could help me out with some legal advice regarding a solicitor and a friend? A friend of my families mother died on Sunday and as you can imagine she is quite distraught.

About 18 months ago, she couldn't get hold of her mother. So I drove her to her mothers house at about 10pm, to find that she had fallen out of the bed. She used to have meals on wheels, but shamefully, nobody contacted my friend to say they couldn't deliver her meal.

Her mother was taken to hospital and luckily she was OK other than a few bruises and being dehydrated. Her mother was very frail, but she was one of those feisty, independent older ladies, who would often go on about how she wanted to stay at home even though she lived in a house with a large staircase and was incapable of looking after herself properly.

Anyway, after much deliberating and arguing with her mother, she manage to persuade her mother to move into a care home after another incident where she almost burned herself alive after falling down near the fire and being unable to get herself back up.

My friend hired a solicitor to help her out with her mother finances and to pay for her care. Her mother soon took a turn for the worse and eventually became senile. The solicitor applied to the courts to look after her mother estate as she was not in a fit mental state, which she could have contested but as she is inexperienced with this kind of thing, she left it too the solicitors as they were on a friendly basis.

Soon afterwards, the solicitors told my friend they were selling her mothers house, to contribute towards her care, even though my friend knew she had plenty of money to cover those costs in her bank account. My friend and her daughter spoke with the solicitors to object to the house being sold, but she eventually cut all ties with them and the house was sold. This was at the end of last year and she has no idea what happened to her mother house.

The home were she resided was only a 15 minute walk from her, so she would regular go around to see her. She saw her on the Friday, where the care home held a BBQ and she was in good spirits. However on the Sunday, she got the phone call to say her mother had passed away.
She went to the funeral directors to make the arrangements and tried to contact the solicitors who for some reason are refusing to speak to her on the phone, but they will be sending a letter out to her which she should get tomorrow.

I am going to see her tomorrow to help her out, on top of all the stress of her mother dying, she is suspicious of the solicitor actions as her mother never made a will.

I've read about Intestacy Laws and it recommends that she applies for probate, but because the solicitor is already involved in her mothers estate, I'm not sure what to advise her to do.

Does she need to apply for probate? Or should she leave it to the solicitors to sort out her mothers estate?

Could anyone give me any advice on this matter as I have never dealt with this kind of stuff myself. So I'm hoping you guys can help me out?

Thanks

Stuart Green

[caro]

Hi Stuart

Firstly condolences to your friend for her loss. My mother has recently had to go into a nursing home after being fiercely independent and that alone is not easy to deal with, so this on top must be a nightmare for her.

I think it would be wisest to see what the solicitor has to say first and what is in the letter. She should not be rushed into making any decisions either. Can you go with her as moral support, as hopefully you will be able to think rationally and clearly, and ensure that she is not fobbed off or asked to sign anything she isn't completely happy with.

If it turns out the solicitor has acted inappropriately, she can make a complaint to the Law Society, but for now just take one step at a time and see what tomorrow brings.

Keep us posted.

[wino]

I agree with caro,
Wait and see what the letter from the solicitors says first.

[Stuart Green]

Hi Caro & Wino

Thank you very much for the advice. I am going around shortly, so hopefully this letter will have arrived. I will let you know as soon as I can.

Thanks again.

Stuart

[Stuart Green]

Hi Folks,

I've just spoken to her on the phone as I was going to go around, but she is out at the moment. She received the letter but it is getting really confusing.

As the solictor had power of attorney until her mother died, they are now saying that as she is the heir to her mothers estate, she as to decide what to do. The solicitor says she can deal with the estate or alternatively my friend as to get another solicitor to deal with it.

My friends daughter as been on to the probate people, but they are stating that they do not have to get another solicitor, they can become the executors themselves.

The problem lies with her mothers birth certificate. I didn't know this but my friend was adopted, but her mothers name was on her birth certificate and she never got in contact with my friend until she heard that she was being migrated to Australia.

Apparently the solicitors do not believe my friend is her daughter because her mother name on her birth certificate is different to the one on her mothers. The solicitors have to contact someone as a legal requirement (I can't remember who it is know) and it will be up to the courts to decide if she in fact her daughter or not?

So I think it might be a case of getting a DNA test to prove to the courts that she is my friends mother. It sounds like it is going to be a messy affair as the solicitor as put a block on the estate, so they can't even arrange the funeral yet.

I may have gotten this a little mixed up, so I will updated you when I see her later on.

[wino]

Sorry SG I think I'm getting confused myself now

Originally Posted by Stuart Green

As the solictor had power of attorney until her mother died, they are now saying that as she is the heir to her mothers estate, she as to decide what to do. The solicitor says she can deal with the estate or alternatively my friend as to get another solicitor to deal with it.

So your friend can choose another solicitor or deal with her mothers estate herself. OK so far

My friends daughter as been on to the probate people, but they are stating that they do not have to get another solicitor, they can become the executors themselves.
OK

The problem lies with her mothers birth certificate. I didn't know this but my friend was adopted, but her mothers name was on her birth certificate and she never got in contact with my friend until she heard that she was being migrated to Australia.
Bit confused here- is this your friends birth certificate or her mothers?
If the mothers is it her biological mother or her adopted one?

Apparently the solicitors do not believe my friend is her daughter because her mother name on her birth certificate is different to the one on her mothers. The solicitors have to contact someone as a legal requirement (I can't remember who it is know) and it will be up to the courts to decide if she in fact her daughter or not?
Again is this her biological mother?

So I think it might be a case of getting a DNA test to prove to the courts that she is my friends mother. It sounds like it is going to be a messy affair as the solicitor as put a block on the estate, so they can't even arrange the funeral yet.
I thought that the solicitors had given your friend the option of decideing what to do as she is the heir to her mothers estate?

I may have gotten this a little mixed up, so I will updated you when I see her later on.

[Stuart Green]

Sorry Wino, it is getting confusing.

My friends mother is her biological mother as far as she is aware but her mother gave my friend up for adoption. Her mothers surname on my friends birth certificate (Cavell) is different to that on her mothers birth certificate. (Shipman).

This is why the solicitor thinks that my friend is not her biological daughter. The solicitor as given her the option of what to do, but the solicitor as stated that they have to report this discrepancy and put a block on the estate as they do not believe my friend is her daughter.

She is confused and I think in turn, she is confusing me a little.

I'll report back later on. Hopefully armed with some facts.

Thanks again Wino.

Stuart

[breeze1996]

Just a thought it could be a married name, if the mum had been married then her maiden name could be Shipman.

[Aequitas]

An adopted child is treated in law as if born as the child of the adopters or adopter. Accordingly an adopted person can have no claim on the estate of a natural parent under an intestacy.

[Stuart Green]

Hi All,

OK...I saw her yesterday and I'll try and explain it the best I can as it gets very confusing. Let me give you the background in order to clarify things. Her mother has never been married but as used 3 different names....

Her mothers birth certificate names her as Shipstone. (Not Shipman!)

My friend was not adopted, but she was put into a care home (Run by nuns!) by her mother as she was born out of wedlock back in 1940. She never met her mother until she was 16 when my friend was going to be migrated to Australia. Her mother turned up to stop her being migrated and that is when she 1st met her mother.

She says when she was growing up, she knew of a couple of uncles and an aunty she used to stay with occasionally.

On my friends birth certificate her mothers surname and my friends are down as Cavel. The name Cavel we have discovered is the name of her mother sister (Her auntie) as she was married into the Cavel Family. Why she used this name, we are not sure, but my friend was told by the registrar that this was quite common back then for people to change their name as laws were different back then..

Her mothers current surname is Snowden and this is the name on her death certificate, this we have discovered was the name of her brothers father (Who it turns out are half brothers!). So my friends grandmother may have remarried and changed her name and we are guessing her mother may have done the same.

Now, as I stated, their relationship was rekindled after her mothers partner passed away about 10 years ago. About 3 years ago, her mother health was deteriorating, so she went to Age Concern, who were wonderful and really helped my friend and her mother out. When it came to the point were it was dangerous for her be left on her own after almost burning herself alive, the Age Concern woman advised my friend to get in contact with a solicitor and recommended one which she said that Age Concern used, so she gave her a card with this solicitors details on.

The solicitor was really helpful and would advise my friend of what she was doing. When it became apparent that my friends mother was becoming senile, the solicitor made an application to the court to be granted power of attorney, my friend could have contested this at the time, but this kind of thing overwhelms her and the solicitor appeared to be quite trustworthy, so my friend left her to it as she was in regular contact with my friend.

It was when the solicitor decided to sell her mothers house, she and her daughters strongly objected stating that there was enough funds in her mothers account to cover the costs, so there was no reason to sell it. However, the solicitor appeared to get the hump with them, so she decided to cut all ties with my friend and her daughters and ignored their calls and letters.

The house was auctioned and sold last year as my friends grand daughter had passed and noticed it was sold. The care home told my friend that the solicitor had been to see her mother a few times, but not while my friend was their.

So now her mother as passed away, so she contact the solicitor who refused to speak with her. She told them a letter would arrive, which was yesterday.

The letter she received offers my friend her condolences and the solicitor states that she can either take care of matters or will await for "legal undertakings" from another solicitor. They said she had notified the "Office of Public Guardian"

Now this is where it gets really strange...

She contacted the funeral director who were really helpful and they advised her to go to her mothers doctors to get the body released. So she contacted the doctors but the solicitor had contacted the doctors and told them not to release the body because the solicitor told them, that she had been contacted by Age Concern because they thought my friend was not her daughter. (The Doctor didn't say this, but hinted at this!)

This is completely untrue as it was my friend who contacted Age Concern and then it was them who gave her the number for this solicitor.

So she went back to the funeral directors, who had also been contacted by the solicitors who had told them a similar story and that she would not be releasing the funds to cover the costs of the funeral as the solicitor had put a block on her mothers estate...Again they wouldn't say exactly what had been said by the solicitor but they hinted at this.

The tried to contact the solicitor, but she refused to answer their calls. My friend as you can imagine is horrified as to what is happening to her, to the point were she doubts that her mother is really her mother and his quite distraught with this.

So her daughter rang the probate people, who had never come across this situation before but explained that this solicitor power of attorney deceased the moment her mother passed away.

So they rang another solicitor for advice, even this solicitor was puzzled by this behaviour, they asked for the name of the solicitor who had power of attorney and said they would do a check on a register or a list which had the name of registered solicitors on it. When the solicitor called back, he said he couldn't find the name of this solicitor. He advised them to contact them again if they would like to take this further, as he could apply to the court and subpoena this solicitor to release the papers.

They tried to call her mothers solicitor again but eventually they spoke with her boss who was quite off handed with them. He had said they suspected that my friend wasn't really their deceased clients daughter and that they were passing this over to a Ethical Board for them to make a judgement and that they wouldn't be releasing anything to them.....Unless she can prove that she is their clients daughter.

They have looked at a getting a DNA test, however it is very expensive and there is another problem. They can't use the DNA from her mother without her mothers permission, as she is now deceased this is not possible. The DNA testers said, the only way to prove this would be if the courts gave them permission to do the tests on her mother DNA to prove to the courts.

My friend as you can imagine is going through hell right now and I am trying to help her the best I can. Luckily one of her mothers oldest friends is still alive, she as explained quite the misunderstanding with the names and says that my friend is definitely her mother, she says she as some photos of my friend when she was a baby and that her mother also took out an insurance policy for her under the name of Snowden. She says she as got copies of this. They are going to see her on Thursday, so I hope she can help settle my friends worries and concern....

I noticed that there is an address on my friends birth certificate which states her mothers address where my friend was born. (Which we believe would be her mothers/stepfathers address) I have said that she should be able to go to the land registry and check the records to find out if a Shipstone/Snowdon lived at the address at the time of her birth, if a Shipman/Snowdon lived their, then this would prove that it was her mother who registered her birth.

However, I am at a loss at what else to suggest. I imagine it would be a case of seeking legal advice, but she is very concerned because she can't afford it and more importantly, she is very distressed because she can't make the arrangements to bury her mother. Her mother had already brought a plot next to her partner but the solicitor as all the papers regarding that.

We have also found out that this solicitor is also on the board member for Age Concern.

Can anyone help out...If I have not explained anything, just let me know and I will clarify as best as I can. I know it is confusing but I hope I have explained it as best as I could.

Thanks again

Stuart

[Stuart Green]

More news.....and this is getting even weirder....

My friends daughter was talking to one of her friends about this situation and mentioned the name Cavel above. When her friend turned around and said that she were friends with a Cavel family. It turns out this is my friends uncle that she used to stay with when she was younger.

He is still alive and they are going to see him tomorrow.

From this, they were able to find family records which explained all different names and the links at the registrars. She said the registrar was absolutely fantastic and couldn't do enough for them, so they have now taken copies of all the records to the solicitors, which they have taken copies off.

The solicitor wasn't in the office today, but hopefully there should be enough evidence for them to prove that my friend is her daughter to remove the block and they can make start making the arrangements.

We'll find out tomorrow.....So out of these tragic events, there is a little happiness knowing my friend will see her uncle for the 1st time in over 50 years.

Thanks

Stuart

[johnhowell]

Originally Posted by Stuart Green

More news.....and this is getting even weirder....

My friends daughter was talking to one of her friends about this situation and mentioned the name Cavel above. When her friend turned around and said that she were friends with a Cavel family. It turns out this is my friends uncle that she used to stay with when she was younger.

He is still alive and they are going to see him tomorrow.

From this, they were able to find family records which explained all different names and the links at the registrars. She said the registrar was absolutely fantastic and couldn't do enough for them, so they have now taken copies of all the records to the solicitors, which they have taken copies off.

The solicitor wasn't in the office today, but hopefully there should be enough evidence for them to prove that my friend is her daughter to remove the block and they can make start making the arrangements.

We'll find out tomorrow.....So out of these tragic events, there is a little happiness knowing my friend will see her uncle for the 1st time in over 50 years.

Thanks

Stuart

Stuart,

This may satisfy the solictor, but your friend will still have to register with the Probate Office to become the executrix of her mothers estate. The Probate Office will issue her with a Letter of Administration that formally allows her to deal with Banks, house sale, etc.
Being intestate, your friend will have to state that their are no other living relatives or their children - her mums siblings/parents/grandparents/uncles or aunts - any other children besides your friend? The Probate Office have a leaflet detailing the level of relationship that has to be met.

If your friend is the only child then the estate should revert to her in total - minus any IHT.

Originally Posted by Stuart Green

We'll find out tomorrow.....So out of these tragic events, there is a little happiness knowing my friend will see her uncle for the 1st time in over 50 years.

From your previous message he probably is not her "real" uncle.

Good luck to your friend,
John

[Stuart Green]

Originally Posted by johnhowell

Stuart,

This may satisfy the solictor, but your friend will still have to register with the Probate Office to become the executrix of her mothers estate. The Probate Office will issue her with a Letter of Administration that formally allows her to deal with Banks, house sale, etc.
Being intestate, your friend will have to state that their are no other living relatives or their children - her mums siblings/parents/grandparents/uncles or aunts - any other children besides your friend? The Probate Office have a leaflet detailing the level of relationship that has to be met.

If your friend is the only child then the estate should revert to her in total - minus any IHT.



From your previous message he probably is not her "real" uncle.

Good luck to your friend,
John

Hi John,

The solicitor was the problem, I am speaking to her later on today. So heopfully it should be resolved.

And he is my friends mothers half brother, so he is technically her Uncle, she as fond memories of him and her auntie (His Wife!).

Thanks for the advice.

Stuart