BT horrendous bill-duty of care lapse?

[lickthewallfatboy]

This is a bit of a saga,but briefly this-

july 2005 signed up with ISP UKONLINE to what I beleived was their monthly fee flat rate service.

OCT 2005-phone bill arrives for £1300 odd quid-after I picked myself up off the floor,contacted UK ONLINE who basically said you signed up for pay as you go,pay the bill and go away.I distinctly remember inputting my bank details for the flat monthly payment service,so something funny is going on....

Checked when calls to UKONOLINE were made,and a lot were in the late hours when the PC was left on doing other things,and I wasn't even there!!So the pc was dialling out on its' own....

There is no on screen indication that you are actually connected,and as we get very few incoming calls anyway,there was nothing to indicate a problem.

Referred problem to OTELO the communications Ombudsman,who seem to be siding with UKONLINE in their preliminary decision,but did say that BT would have been the ones monitoring the telephone usage,not UKONLINE.

My point is,did alarm bells not start to ring at BT ,when our phone bill normally runs to around £100 for a quarter,sometimes a bit more,sometimes a lot less-we use mobiles mostly.-and calls were mounting up at the rate of hundreds of pounds?Do I have any redress against BT?

[pmhread]

Yikes... I would think the duty of care would be with BT. Have you spoken to them about it?

You need to do a good virus check on your PC and make sure you have a firewall installed and switched on. It sounds like you have picked up a dialler from somewhere. I once got one which connected us to a premium rate site whenever there was inactivity for an hour... the charges soon mount up... especially with a quarterly bill.

[lickthewallfatboy]

BT are aware that OTELO are investigating UKONLINE,but the paragraph in the interim decision OTELO says that they do not hold UKONLINE responsible,and that call rates would have been monitored by BT,so it looks as if I'm going to have to put the ball in their court.

Is anyone aware of anything in BT's T+C's whereby they are obliged to contact the customer when irregular phone usage id noted?If there is something,it would appear to be my only chink of light......

[big_rayster]

I used to work for BT in the call centre dealing with these calls every day, even though your calls do route through BT your service provider is the person responsible for your calls and problems.
If you are with BT they do have a department that monitor sudden high call volumes on your line and will call you to ask if you know of these calls and charges.
NOW! for the matter of these rouge dialers that rack up huge bills, if you are with BT you can have a free premium rate call ban put on your line (you may have to insist as some of the operators don't give a monkeys as they are agency and work for manpower and are treated like poo!....another story!) when i was there a lot of calls were to a place called tuvalu (i wonder how many people are screaming " i had that!") which charged you oodles!
As i was leaving (march 2005) BT were blocking all these off-shore numbers from being dialed, an admission of guilt?....i think so!....also at the time there was an article in the times newspaper relating to the duty of care and we were all told not to pass any comment about it as BT were working on one of those corporate responses and because they knew that if they ignored it it would go away!
when we had somebody complain about call charges from these dialers we had to refer the customer to the terms and conditions of their contract where it states that they are responsible for the use of their own line and whoever uses it(just a point here, you can have a line with BT just by calling up and ordering it, you don't sign a contract so is this enforceable?) they will also allow you to dispute the calls but all that happens is they check your line, see if the calls were made more often that not they were!...it's on your bill dummy! and they would uphold the charges to the point that if you didn't pay it would go to a debt collection agency! I seen someones account with almost £1400 worth of calls.....£4 of which were his the rest rouge dialer on his pc.
There is one way to put a stop to this for ever......broadband!
Sorry for the long post but these large companies that think they can ride rough shod over the little guy grinds my gears!
If you need any more info PM me and I'll do my best to help!

[lickthewallfatboy]

Further to all this,BT have instructed their solicitors(Jobling Read and Co of Milton Keynes) to write threatening me with legal action if I don't pay up.

Am I right in thinking that as this account is in dispute,and still under OTELO investigation,that I can basically tell them to go away,and also inform OTELO that BT are harassing me?

I want to write back ASAP,and also phone BT to give them a good talking to,but I need to know exactly what to say to them.

thanks

[lickthewallfatboy]

IN CONNECTION WITH THIS PLEASE READ THIS THREAD-
edited: as threads merged, it wd only take people to dead link

Anyway-to cut a long story short,I have been threatened with legal action to recover a disputed bill(very large) and which is still under OTELO investigation.

Got a letter purporting to be from a firm of solicitors-

JOBLING READ & CO
PO BOX 7328
LIBRA HOUSE
MILTON KEYNES
MK14 6WU.

POINTS TO NOTE-
1.There is no telephone or fax number anywhere on the letter
2.A solicitor's firm with a PO Box address?
3.typeface-my address has clearly been typed-the remainder of the letter is standard BT typeface-an exact match
4.do a google search for them-1 post on a weblog which makes interesting reading
5.do a google for "libra house Milton keynes" and BINGO-BT has a load of departments there.....data protection,security etc etc
6.The letter isn't even signed properly-it's printed VERY badly
7.the bottom of the letter states "solicitors acting for and exclusively on behalf of BT group" and "M.H JOBLING AND C.READ SOLICITORS"

I have dafted this letter as a reply-comments on all this most welcome-

I wish to inform you that BT are fully aware that this account is still in dispute and under investigation by OTELO,the Telecommunications Ombudsman(case ref 162293).

I recently spoke to an OTELO representative who advised me to contact BT Northern Ireland in writing,following one of the preliminary findings in this case.This I did,and I enclose a copy of this letter which was sent via recorded delivery-and which no one at BT NI has seen fit to reply to.

I will also be forwarding a copy of your letter to OTELO,bringing to their attention that BT are abusing the statutory complaints system with a view to short-circuiting it completely-and that they are engaging in harassment of a customer.

Also,I have been receiving 2 different bills from BT with 2 very different amounts being requested.This will also be brought to the notice of the Ombudsman’s Office.

I have also been searching for details of your company on the internet-strangely,no telephone or fax number appears to be available for this company.I find this incredible-and I also notice that the type face in the letter used matches that of BT EXACTLY!!!Is this just an amazing coincidence????

I do hope this firm of solicitors actually exists………

Yours faithfully

THREADS MERGED. Please do not start a new thread when this is clearly relevant to your existing one.

[Bookworm]

I have also been searching for details of your company on the internet-strangely,no telephone or fax number appears to be available for this company.I find this incredible-and I also notice that the type face in the letter used matches that of BT EXACTLY!!!Is this just an amazing coincidence????

I do hope this firm of solicitors actually exists………

I would scrap that. They obviously are BT's in-house solicitors, as clearly stated at the bottom of the letter. So what? Plenty of big companies do that to cut down on costs. They're quite likely to be doubling up as the in-house DCA too. Again, wouldn't be the first time.

IMO, your best bet is to concentrate on the fact that while the amount is in dispute, they can't hound you like this.

[lickthewallfatboy]

cheers Bookworm

v helpful as always!!

[elsinore]

How about calling Libra House first Licky, and asking for Mr Jobling and/or Mr Read? The response might cause you to amend your otherwise excellent letter!!

[blueskies]

An edit to this letter was posted (I think by Bookworm) in the main thread.

[lickthewallfatboy]

had a reply back from "Jobling Read &Co".

Thank you for your letter blah blah.....and we wish to inform you that we are no longer instructed in this matter,and BT will be contacting you under separate cover in reply to your correspondence.

Please be assured that no proceedings will be taken,and accept our apologies for any inconvenience this matter may have caused.

HEE HEE!!

This is my final submission to OTELO for consideration-it may do the trick,it may not....we'll have to see.

15 JULY 2006


Dear Mr xxxxxx

Thank you for your letter of 14 July

I wish to submit the letter I sent to BT NI on 22 June,highlighting the possible issues raised in paragraph 5 of your initial findings,and BT’s response,received on 15 June.

I am also enclosing the letter threatening legal action to recover the debt of the outstanding bill amount,and my response to that letter.

In the BT reply of 15 June,I would draw your attention to the fact that the BT High Value Accounts team do not appear to be equipped at all to accurately assess a case of high value call charges accrued over the term of a quarterly bill period on a day to day basis.”Exceptionally high usage” is the term used,with no viable explanation given as to how this is established,quantified or prevented in cases such as mine.

Furthermore,BT makes “assumptions” that a customer intends to make any dialled calls from their line-clearly with no mechanism in place to make comparison with a customer’s call and billing history and,at the very least,to alert the customer that exceptionally high call charges are building up.The only notification that a customer receives,therefore,is a colossal telephone bill with no means provided by BT to put a stop to the damage before it has gotten out of hand.If BT had been able to compare the charges which are in dispute as they were building up,with my account history dating back to 1993,it would have been startlingly clear to them that something was gravely amiss.

I would be grateful if all this further information could be included in any submission presented to the Ombudsman.

Yours sincerely

ltwf

[dw190]

JOBLING, MILES HOWARD - Employee

118551 law Society ID

01/12/1979 Date Admitted

BT GROUP PLC
BT Wholesale
FaradayBuilding
LONDON
EC4V 5BT

ENGLAND

There is another Read emploed as a solicitor at BT

READ, BARRY JOHN - Employee

229825 Law Society ID

15/12/2003 Date Admitted

BT GROUP PLC
Telecom House
125-135 Preston Road
BRIGHTON
EAST SUSSEX
BN1 6BG
ENGLAND


Unable to find any C Read employed as a solicitor with BT

BT GROUP PLC
Libra House
Sunrise Parkway
MILTON KEYNES
BUCKINGHAMSHIRE
MK 14 6PH
ENGLAND

Phone Number: 01908 294 646
Fax Number: 01908 294 641


Law Society of England and Wales - Offices of this Organisation

[adridude]

Dont worry about OTELO, contact Oftel, they are much more rutheless. Unfortunately if they find that you had spyware or some program dialling in at odd hours on your PC, or can prove it, your stuck. its your duty to keep your computer clear of things like that, and to disconnect your PC from the telephone line at night.

Been there, went to court, lost