Is anyone clued up on employment law?

sequenci · 9th June 2006, 09:28

I have a question regarding my other half and redundancy. It would be really good if I could obtain some help

- I'll post the details on here should anyone be interested!

Thanks

Bookworm · 9th June 2006, 09:46

Interested, yes.

Knowledgeable, a bit.

Post and we'll see what we can do.

.

sequenci · 9th June 2006, 12:30

well it is about my girlfriend.

we were both made redundant from vodafone in feb.

i was paid my redundnacy fine but she didn't get hers.

basically they were saying that she was overpaid for 18 months and therefore they would withold the entire payment (about £4k)

we both started the role in dec 2003, in our dept there were two levels of empoyee, each attracting different salaries. we were both on the higher bracket. in essence everyone did excactly the same job, there wasn't really any difference.

apparantly my other half didn't pass her probation, nothing was ever said to her at the time formally although her boss at the time did mention it. the boss then went on maternity leave..

my other half continued to be paid at the higher level doing excactly the same work.

then when the redundnacies were announced my other halfs new boss brought up the over payments.

vodafone were really horrible to my other half, so much so that she ended up going off work sick with work related stress. she nevcer received a penny in redundancy and i must state that the treatment she recieved was awful. the manager of the department was brought in for the last few months (he was from anbother site unaffected by the changes). it was pretty stressful for both of us.

we realy don't know what to do next.. is it worth chasing or do we leave it. my other half states that she didn't sign anything to accept the review although she did accept the changes when mentioned just before the redundancy, although it wasn't stated about anything in retrospect.

sorry if thius post is here and there i'm at work so on the downlow

thanks!

dinghy · 9th June 2006, 12:39

Was passing the probation a condition of the higher salary ?

sequenci · 9th June 2006, 14:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by dinghy

Was passing the probation a condition of the higher salary ?

yes it was. however to start with the people on the higher salary did extra work, but it was soon got rid of so everyone did the same work.. it opened a huge can of woms at the time.

the argument was that the other half wasn't told officially and in writing that she didn't pass.

the whole department was a bit of a farce, the entire site has since been closed down and the work moved to stoke, banbury, newbury and overseas.

9th June 2006, 14:47

Chrikey, I was made redundant with Voda too and my partner, didnt have any probs with payments tho...

Strange.

The only thing I would say is that Voda didnt have to pay you £4k (they did to us too) as im guessing that they gave you an ex gratia payment too...

I know it doesnt help much but god I feel for you, I thought £4k was a lot but It went really quick.

Good Luck!

Lou xxx

9th June 2006, 14:49

Ive just re read it and you and your partner went through exactly the same, issues about pay and another manager being brought in, we were all left in the dark so much and didnt know when we had to leave or when the payments would be paid...It was awful, If she needs any support or just a vent, tell her to pm me!

Lou x

fivelaws · 9th June 2006, 15:19

Whilst there is an argument about the overpayment, if there was nothing in writing, there is very little they can legally do to recover it. This has been tested time and time again by the tribunal service - essentially, you get paid on good faith and if you believe the salary is correct, your employer can "ask" for you to repay, but if you don't sign a release giving them permission to deduct the overpayment from salary, they have committed an offence (Unlawful deduction of salary - Employment Rights Act 1996 Sec 13-27). Normally, you would go through the employment tribunal service, but they only allow a 90-day limit between 'offence' and 'claim' - so that route is out. You can follow the normal flow of things on BAG - preliminary letter stating why you think you are owed the money, LBA if they don't respond and then small claims. A company like Voda would probably just pay up.

On the downside, statutory redundancy is peanuts; one weeks salary for every full year worked, capped at £290/week (£280 if before 1-Feb 2006). So if you worked for three years and a half years in a £60k/year job, you'd only be looking at £870, though this is always tax free.

If you go for it, you'll be wanting to add the unlawful deduction (final salary) and the redundancy together, plus any unpaid holiday, expenses, allowance etc.

Good luck.

sequenci · 9th June 2006, 15:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by fivelaws

but they only allow a 90-day limit between 'offence' and 'claim' - so that route is out.

i've been told by someone else it was 6 months?!?!

i've just been given a book on employment law so will have a read on the train home

sequenci · 9th June 2006, 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lueeze

Ive just re read it and you and your partner went through exactly the same, issues about pay and another manager being brought in, we were all left in the dark so much and didnt know when we had to leave or when the payments would be paid...It was awful, If she needs any support or just a vent, tell her to pm me!

Lou x

thanks

i shall let her know!!

i'm guessing you were with a service provider that vodafone then bought? there were a couple in swindon if i remember. one of them had an amazing building which looked like half an egg. cellular ops? i think that was the name!

also the other half was given in writing what the redundancy would be

she also receieved a wage slip with the amount on it.. just no payment

fivelaws · 9th June 2006, 15:41

It's always been 90-days for as long back as I can remember... Here's the ets website;

Quote:

How soon must I make my claim to an Employment Tribunal?

Most claims to Employment Tribunals must be made within very strict time limits. In most cases the tribunal must receive your claim within three months. This three months begins with the date your employment ended or when the matter you are complaining about happened. This means that if it happened on 1 March, the tribunal must receive your claim on or before 31 May. If it happened on 5 March, the tribunal must receive your claim on or before 4 June.

The only exception, which is one I have used myself, is that if you are in dispute and have failed to come to an agreement, you can go for 90-days after negotiations have ended.

Quote:

she also receieved a wage slip with the amount on it.. just no payment

Bingo! That'll be an unlawful deduction. Clear as the nose on your face. I am pretty confident on this, because I forced an ex-employer through the tribunal service for doing exactly the same to me. I left after my notice period, they refused to give me my final salary because of some nonesense dispute and in the end they had to pay the whole lot!

sequenci · 9th June 2006, 15:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by fivelaws

It's always been 90-days for as long back as I can remember... Here's the ets website;

The only exception, which is one I have used myself, is that if you are in dispute and have failed to come to an agreement, you can go for 90-days after negotiations have ended.

Bingo! That'll be an unlawful deduction. Clear as the nose on your face. I am pretty confident on this, because I forced an ex-employer through the tribunal service for doing exactly the same to me. I left after my notice period, they refused to give me my final salary because of some nonesense dispute and in the end they had to pay the whole lot!

would you say even though the three months has passed we could still claim for the money...

also i will state that the reason it has been so long is that the stress of it meant that the other half was signed off work sick and it is only now that she feels comfortable with pursuing it!

9th June 2006, 16:03

Yes cellular operations I met my partner there, worked in Customer retention, was great ethos great building, so such a shame and shock when voda bought us and ditched it, the building is still empty 2 years on!!!

Still got my voda staff account with free L/R tho!!!!

I have yahoo if she wants to chat my IM is Lueeze2

Vodafone stinks, I was quite please when they reposted biggest EVER losses a few weeks ago!

sequenci · 9th June 2006, 16:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lueeze

Yes cellular operations I met my partner there, worked in Customer retention, was great ethos great building, so such a shame and shock when voda bought us and ditched it, the building is still empty 2 years on!!!

Still got my voda staff account with free L/R tho!!!!

I have yahoo if she wants to chat my IM is Lueeze2

Vodafone stinks, I was quite please when they reposted biggest EVER losses a few weeks ago!

how bizzare...

i met my partner there too.

we both worked in customer retention.

MADNESS!

9th June 2006, 16:13

NOOOOO! Surely not!!!!

We were in the same team, we pretended to hate each other, he was really rude to me, and I thought he was a sleaze, infact can't remember how he talked me round, was probabally the beer googles at a work do!

What company? was is voda itself?

fivelaws · 9th June 2006, 16:15

You can still claim, because there is a 6-year statute of limitations.

But you cannot use the employment tribunal service.

If it was me I would follow these steps;

1) Write to them explaining that you believe they have made an unlawful deduction of salary by not paying the terminal salary of £x.xx as detailed in the payslip dated dd-mm-yy. Feign ignorance of any reason why they could have done this and ask for any documentary evidence. You understand that without written consent to make a deduction from salary, the have committed an offence under ERA (1996) s.13-27. You also believe that the withholding of redundancy to be unlawful. Total up exactly what you believe they owe and demand, in the strongest terms possible, that the repay this within 14-days.

2) Assuming they tell you to sod off, write again expressing disappointment and give them a further 14-days before "action".

3) If still no satisfactory response, Moneyclaim for the whole amount plus 8% interest. (have a search for "s.69 interest" using the search button).

What happens next will be down to Voda's legal department, but the worst case scenario for you is that you will lose the court fees (£120-200 probably).

When I say "worse case", this is based on your honesty. If they have good written, contemporaneous documentation making it clear that you weren't entitled to the salary you received and you

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