Fees from debt collector - advise please?

[redsonja]

Hi all,
Hoping someone can help me.
My fiance had a LLoyds account that got in a right state due to all their charges (I have sent a Subject Access Request for this account), the account then got passed to BLS collections and he had to pay a little under £3,000 to completely clear the debt. This obviously included BLS charges.

My question is....

If the charges by the bank were unlawful and they then referred the account to debt collectors, who in turn added their costs, is there any way to try and get the debt collector costs back?

Look forward to any replies
Thanks

	Debt collection library Follow this link to our debt collection library. This library contains templates and advice for dealing with debt collectors who act oppressively or unfairly. This library is work in progress and will be built up over the next few weeks. 17.03.09

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[lookinforinfo]

Your fiance did not have a contract with BLS, so they had no right to charge
him fees-they get paid by the bank. Write to BLS asking for proof of their
right to charge you. If they cannot justify the charges, give them the choice
of repaying them or going to Court. And you could add, that unless
payment is made speedily, you will contact the OFT to complain
that the charges are discouraged by the OFT and querying whether
BLS are fit and proper persons to hold a Consumer Credit licence.

[sarahpp]

lookinforinfo is quite right. The OFT guidelines state that there has to be a provision in the original contract for DCA charges. Even if your original agreement did contain such a provision (which is unlikely) any charges which are subsequently added must be reasonable and in proportion to the main debt.

	Debt collection library Follow this link to our debt collection library. This library contains templates and advice for dealing with debt collectors who act oppressively or unfairly. This library is work in progress and will be built up over the next few weeks. 17.03.09

[redsonja]

I have asked Lloyds for balance that was referred to BLS etc but they have not given me any info. I will write to BLS but my partner did call them and they were useless.
Next stage with Barclays is court...do you think I should get the amount of costs sorted 1st with BLS before I file for court?
What do people think?

[redsonja]

anyone out there?

[lookinforinfo]

Sonja, you need to do things in writing, so that you can show the Court
that you have done all you could to resolve the matter without legal action.
Once you get the Subject Access Request from the bank, you will know how much the debt was
when passed to BLS. Unless they have incurred Court costs, then the debt should not have risen.
In the meantime[pending the Subject Access Request response] you could send a CCA request to
BLS in which they might include what charges they have made,

In addition, you could write to your bank, stating that you believe BLS have added unlawful charges to your account and are refusing to state what they
have charged for. You are holding the bank equally responsible for the
breach, and you will complain to Trading Standards that neither
company is fit to hold a Consumer Credit Licence. And see if your bank can
get BLS to retract their fees.

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[redsonja]

hi info, thanks for coming back to me. We had the Subject Access Request back from LLoyds but it doesnt give any balances, just lists the charges and interest so we we're still none the wiser.

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[redsonja]

Hi, me again...
After going through all of his paperwork, I have just discovered that the amount that went to BLS was in fact for a loan he defaulted on.
What is the procedure with this now as I am out of my depth her a bit. Should I send a Subject Access Request to bank/BLS etc?
Thanks in advance for any help

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[lookinforinfo]

The Subject Access Request you sent to the bank should have included everything they had on
his name, so there is no point in asking them again. However if you know their is info that has not been included, you can write back and ask for it by
pointing out that they have not yet fulfilled the requirements of the Subject Access Request.
You would normally senda CCA request to BLS for more details, but as the debt has been cleared you cannot do that.

You will just have to write to them asking for a breakdown of the charges they added to your account. If they fail to comply, write to your local Trading Standards office as BLS should not have added their own charges, unless it was interest.

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[redsonja]

Thanks again lookin.
I didnt put the loan number on the Subject Access Request, does that matter? I have been asking for info from them (when I thought it was the account referred) and so far they have completely ignored my request on info for BLS. Maybe it was because I didnt put a loan account number in. Im at court stage for the bank charges so do you think it would be ok to file for court for the bank account and do the loan separate?
Thanks in advance.

	Bank Charges You should have started your claim for your bank charges by now. Don't wait. You should send your bank a Subject Acess Request asking for all personal data they hold on you - not just statements. You should calculate all of your bank charges and related interest as far back as 1995. You should send your bank a demand for a refund giving them 7 days. You should commence your legal action adding 8% statutory interest. If you wait for the outcome of the test case, you may not be able to claim like this. you may not be able to claim interest. You may only be offered the difference between the charge and the OFT "fair charge". The repayment scheme will try to limit you to refinds from 2001 only. A repayment scheme will not deal with any bank charges related defaults on the credit register whereas in a court action you can ask for these to be removed and to be compensated for the damage caused to you and your family by them. You should also write to the bank and to the CRA and put all charges related credit entries in disupte and warn them that you will want them removed from the Register when the test case is over. Warn them also that you are likely to be seeking compensation for these wrongful data entries. Full and final settlement Have you previously accepted a partial repayment of your bank charges in full settlement? You will still be able to claim the rest of your money back after the Test case is decided. Get all your information back to 1995 and put in your claim now.

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[dannyboy660]

Excuse me for poking my nose in, and maybe I'm stating the obvious but BLS Collections is part of Lloyds Tsb, they are the same thing.

Does this have any bearing on things??

[lookinforinfo]

When you send an Subject Access Request it covers ALL your accounts with them and all records
they have on you.

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[dannyboy660]

I think LTSB will treat BLS as a separate company for the purposes of S.A.R, and vice versa. Unfortunately it's a huge loophole that many don't seem to be aware of. LTSB pass the debt to BLS on the pretence they are a separate company and many people will pay up, plus interest and charges unaware they are in fact paying LTSB anyway, just under a different name.

What a fantastic little moneyspinner!!! If you get your magnifying glass out and go over a BLS letter in detail somewhere in the small print will be cleverly hidden "BLS Collections is a trading name of Lloyds TSB" which makes it all perfectly legal because they have 'told' you, that they are one and the same. My old friends Lowell alerted me to this fact with their alter ego 'Hamptons Legal'. Legal my arsenal.

Lloyds have been in this game a very, very long time and need to be approached with caution. If you Subject Access Request both, you'll get a reply from both - but if you CCA both, it stands to reason that one or the other will come up with the paperwork and unfortunately will have been put on alert......unless they don't have it at all, but that's the risk you have to take with Lloyds.

All the best.

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[redsonja]

Bloody hell it does too! Right at the bottom of the BLS letter it says "a trading name of Lloyds"

So does that mean they are allowed to make charges then when it goes to BLS? Hmnnnn Im not sure what the best way is to tackle this. Just some info to start on any charges would be bloody good.

Should I write to Lloyds saying they havent given me all info on all accounts (even though I never included the loan number) or should I send a Subject Access Request to BLS then?

Thanks both for your help with this.

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[dannyboy660]

Lloyds are a very tricky bunch.

Unlike many lenders who pass the debt briefly to an in-house collector, then sell it outright to a purchaser for the tax relief, Lloyds pass it to a 'separate company' to do the deed. This 'separate company' does in fact belong to Lloyds anyway (as you now know).

This company will hang on to the bitter end to squeeze every last penny out of you for the debt, and interest and charges if they can get away with it, without involving the purchase market or any outsiders. This is old fashioned debt collection at it's best/worst/fairest depending on your point of view. Pure profit for Lloyds.

CCA'ing Lloyds or BLS is likely to produce the necessary documents for them to proceed a step further, should they want to, unless the docs don't exist anymore. That's the gamble. If they do sell it to a purchaser a very quick CCA to the new 'owner' may catch them out, but unfortunately they will almost certainly have guessed your intentions by now.

I don't really know what to say, but perhaps the next step would be to identify the charges or interest by Lloyds and BLS separately, then question them on the legality of it, knowing they are the same company and effectively charging you twice....?????.

It's a good bargaining tool, but I really don't know how things would pan out if you take that route. Sorry for putting a bit of a damper on things.....but forewarned is fore..wassisname..and least you can be prepared and plan your next step.

All the best.

	Debt collection library Follow this link to our debt collection library. This library contains templates and advice for dealing with debt collectors who act oppressively or unfairly. This library is work in progress and will be built up over the next few weeks. 17.03.09

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[dannyboy660]

After having a look at charges etc which have questionable legality, if things are in your favour you could drop obvious hints that you are aware they have effectively been charging you twice, and you are prepared to let the matter go to court to get it resolved. That will give them something to think about, and put them on the offensive to try and shout you down. They don't want to go to court and kill the goose.

Depending on the circumstances, (balance, charges, interest,) and using your own judgment, it may be possible to get them into a position where they would let it go. "It wouldn't look too good for Lloyds if this became public knowledge, would it??"

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...templates.html

Letter K with a few alterations might do the trick.

They will make it very uncomfortable for you, that's guaranteed, but it just might be possible.........

The decision is entirely yours and I'm just bouncing an idea.

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[redsonja]

Wow Dannyboy, I appreciate all your help with this. The prob I have to be honest is that I dont know what they charged. My other half defaulted on a loan he had with them because they initially put a bank charge in for a small amount of going over his overdraft. At the time he could only just live on his weekly income so every month he ended up incurring fees on his bank account which meant there was no money to pay the £92 loan repayment. This is when they passed it to BLS. I only have a handful of letters from BLS so I have no idea if he incurred charges. There is also a separate issue with this where he had PPI on the loan too (something else I need to get my head round at some time in case I can claim it back). So I'm not sure what the next step should be.
1 - Complain to LLoyds that they have not fulfilled Subject Access Request (even though I never put the loan number on)
2 - Send another Subject Access Request to Lloyds for all info on the loan
3 - File at court for the penalty charges on the bank account and then deal with Loan separate.

If it was my claim it would be a little easier as I would remember the situation but because its my partners Im a little blind to what happened...and he has the memory span of a goldfish so he's no help lol

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[lookinforinfo]

Sonja, you should write and point out that they still have not fulfilled the
requirements of your Subject Access Request. Advise them that you will complain to Trading Standards and in Court also should the information not be forthcoming. [In
court your argument would be that you are unable to ascertain the true amount of charges unlawfully applied without all the data].
That being said, most charges are taken from your current account-though you
should have received the loan details-perhaps they just missed them when
they checked the account details.

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[dannyboy660]

I'll second that. Seems like a logical step.