Rossendales

[DJXplosion]

Hello all,

I am new to this site and extreamly happy i stumbled across it.

When myself and my partner got home yesterday, we found a letter from a bailiff who had called whilst we was both out at work.

The letter stated that there was a sum of 1181.28 outstanding due to unpaid council tax.

However, the council tax bill we have recieved is wrong it is for a sole occupant and i am sorry, but unless one of us is invisible, then the council tax bill should be for 2 people.

We have phoned on numerous occassions and wrote to the council informing them of this and nothing happened and well now we have a letter threatening to remove goods from the property.

The bottom of the letter actually states and is highlighted with a yellow highlighter pen...

As i was unable to obtain access to your efffect i must now inform you of my intentions to re-attend at your premises and that i may remove goods in your absense.

Does this mean that the baliff could turn up at any time and break in and basically empty my house of everything, including un-opened wrapped christmas presents????

I know a lot of people say just dont answer the door, but i have some quite gossipy and nosey neighbours and the last thing i want to do, is give them some fuel to gossip about on the streets and this goes without mentioning how stressed and upset my girlfriend is that her prize laptop she got for christmas last year will simply go missing one day.

Regards

[MizzPiggy]

Just read your post.

However, the council tax bill we have recieved is wrong it is for a sole occupant and i am sorry, but unless one of us is invisible, then the council tax bill should be for 2 people.

We have phoned on numerous occassions and wrote to the council informing them of this and nothing happened and well now we have a letter threatening to remove goods from the property.

If the bill is wrong as in I would assume for one person is less than two, that you have been paying the normal amount due and that part of things is fine?

Or is it that you are waiting for the right information to start payment?

Sorry, is unclear whether there have been payments of any sort or whether they are collecting on another person or directly what the issue is. ? Sorry, if you could be a little clearer it makes it a tad easier.

If it is wrong, as in wrong person, there is no liability to which the responsability lays with the occupier to inform them as you have done.

If one of the people named on there is correct and the monies are owed, then the liability exists for the person named. The issue of the second person not appearing on the document is a seperate issue to which non payment is still that a Bailiff can pursue.

As it is assumed this is a liability order, it is enforceable despite the discrepencies unless, and only unless, you are not the person named on the Bailiff letter.

If you are paying council tax accordingly to date, then for him to remove goods, again unless you are the person that is on the distress warrant or letter, then he cannot take things or force entry, to which if you are dealing with the matter, then you would have grounds for some recourse.

Many people find it hard to work days and come home when offices are closed to deal with the matter as bosses are not easily pleased with time off to deal with things. If you want extra support, drop as a line.

Alison

[DJXplosion]

Originally Posted by The Watchdog

Just read your post.

However, the council tax bill we have recieved is wrong it is for a sole occupant and i am sorry, but unless one of us is invisible, then the council tax bill should be for 2 people.

We have phoned on numerous occassions and wrote to the council informing them of this and nothing happened and well now we have a letter threatening to remove goods from the property.

If the bill is wrong as in I would assume for one person is less than two, that you have been paying the normal amount due and that part of things is fine?

Or is it that you are waiting for the right information to start payment?

Sorry, is unclear whether there have been payments of any sort or whether they are collecting on another person or directly what the issue is. ? Sorry, if you could be a little clearer it makes it a tad easier.

If it is wrong, as in wrong person, there is no liability to which the responsability lays with the occupier to inform them as you have done.

If one of the people named on there is correct and the monies are owed, then the liability exists for the person named. The issue of the second person not appearing on the document is a seperate issue to which non payment is still that a Bailiff can pursue.

As it is assumed this is a liability order, it is enforceable despite the discrepencies unless, and only unless, you are not the person named on the Bailiff letter.

If you are paying council tax accordingly to date, then for him to remove goods, again unless you are the person that is on the distress warrant or letter, then he cannot take things or force entry, to which if you are dealing with the matter, then you would have grounds for some recourse.

Many people find it hard to work days and come home when offices are closed to deal with the matter as bosses are not easily pleased with time off to deal with things. If you want extra support, drop as a line.

Alison

Alison,

Thank you for your reply.

Yes we was waiting for the correct bill to be issued as all payments come from a joint account, however, this was probably a bad move on our parts and are regretting this now, but we just assumed that if the bill was incorrect it had to be corrected, to ensure that all correct payments were recieved by the council.

My main problem is that the 'enforcement company' is now requesting the 1181.28 to be paid or they will access the premises and remove all goods. This means we have 2 options, we either let them in to tkae everything of value or we empty our accounts and starve over christmas and freeze to death (we are on these silly prepaid meters for energy).

I am really ticked off with myself for letting it get like this and also extreamly furious with the baliffs unwillingness to help or to listen.

I totally understand they have a duty under the warrant issued by the courts, but seriously can they expect at christmas for people to find this kind of money????

I really dont know what to do and am seriously considering selling everything i can get my hands on to pay off the debt.

The most valuable things i have is my DJ Equipment but without this i cannot earn money, but if i dont sell it they will just take it!

Regards

[meggyweggy]

HAvde you tried contacting either the council or the baliff company and seeing if they will accept some sort of arrangement

[MizzPiggy]

Dear DJX,

Honestly, if you contact Rossendales tomorrow and make an arrangement, it will be fine.

If you don't feel you can do this, then please, let us know as we will negotiate for you.

Many people are frightened by the wording and the issue of a Bailiff and the liability order is as we say, purely a liability for the amount owed. The Company has a legal obligation to accept a fair and reasonable payment for the monies outstanding.

Bailiff Companies are in fact, well when we phone, reasonable. There is a duty of care the council hold that employ them that if an agreement is made and stuck to, you probably won't after making the agreement, hear from the Bailiff again or receive letters like you have again, unless you default.

I know it is frightening, but that is the purpose of it, to get you to react and pay. I think they have had their result and in honesty, suggest you phone the Bailiff Company to negotiate in the morning, or message us and we will deal with it for you and negotiate on your behalf with them.

A bailiff is granted powers to seize goods, and despite what many of the things here may say about entry, if you are taking responsability and offering payment, there are options.

I would do it tomorrow, as once you have the agreement, you have peace of mind. Many Bailiffs that collect on council tax are in fact reasonable and they are set with fees that are chargeable. I don't know how else to re assure you, other than encourage you to deal with it tomorrow and I am sure you will be suprised.

Alison

[DJXplosion]

Originally Posted by The Watchdog

Dear DJX,

Honestly, if you contact Rossendales tomorrow and make an arrangement, it will be fine.

If you don't feel you can do this, then please, let us know as we will negotiate for you.

Many people are frightened by the wording and the issue of a Bailiff and the liability order is as we say, purely a liability for the amount owed. The Company has a legal obligation to accept a fair and reasonable payment for the monies outstanding.

Bailiff Companies are in fact, well when we phone, reasonable. There is a duty of care the council hold that employ them that if an agreement is made and stuck to, you probably won't after making the agreement, hear from the Bailiff again or receive letters like you have again, unless you default.

I know it is frightening, but that is the purpose of it, to get you to react and pay. I think they have had their result and in honesty, suggest you phone the Bailiff Company to negotiate in the morning, or message us and we will deal with it for you and negotiate on your behalf with them.

A bailiff is granted powers to seize goods, and despite what many of the things here may say about entry, if you are taking responsability and offering payment, there are options.

I would do it tomorrow, as once you have the agreement, you have peace of mind. Many Bailiffs that collect on council tax are in fact reasonable and they are set with fees that are chargeable. I don't know how else to re assure you, other than encourage you to deal with it tomorrow and I am sure you will be suprised.

Alison

Alison thanks for this offer i am kinda cross posting now cause i starting moaning on two threads

Basically i took your advice and phoned them this morning and they were unwilling to accept any form of payment plan, they said they want the whole amount by the 8th december or they will gain access to my property and remove goods to the value of the warrant.

I will speak to my partner tonight and will most definatly take you up on your offer of helping.

I cant thank you enough for your help here .

[djweeble]

Typical of those bullies Rosendales

It's all well and good being told to talk to these people, but in reality the only talking they understand is talking DOWN to you and bullying. PLUS, if you make payments to them, they will take charges for themselves off every payment you make

The first thing you have to realise is that they CANNOT force entry to your home unless they have made peaceable entry beforehand, i.e. you let them in or they got in through an open door or window.

If they haven't been in, they have NO RIGHT to force their way in.

If you go out, make sure all doors and windows are closed and locked, if you are in, look out of a window BEFORE answering the door.

If Rosendales thugs do call, tell them in no uncertain terms to Fupp Off, they WILL eventually hand the account back to the council and you can start to deal with it as you should of in the first place.

You'll remain liable for their charges, only the proper and legal ones though which aren't a lot, but in reality you probably will never be chased for them.

[DJXplosion]

Originally Posted by djweeble

Typical of those bullies Rosendales

It's all well and good being told to talk to these people, but in reality the only talking they understand is talking DOWN to you and bullying. PLUS, if you make payments to them, they will take charges for themselves off every payment you make

The first thing you have to realise is that they CANNOT force entry to your home unless they have made peaceable entry beforehand, i.e. you let them in or they got in through an open door or window.

If they haven't been in, they have NO RIGHT to force their way in.

If you go out, make sure all doors and windows are closed and locked, if you are in, look out of a window BEFORE answering the door.

If Rosendales thugs do call, tell them in no uncertain terms to Fupp Off, they WILL eventually hand the account back to the council and you can start to deal with it as you should of in the first place.

You'll remain liable for their charges, only the proper and legal ones though which aren't a lot, but in reality you probably will never be chased for them.

Thanks for this information.

I have no intentions of letting them into my property and am in the process of changing the locks to more secure locks at a cost of about £100, this is how scared my partner is they are going to break in.

We have never had problems like this before and we accept that through our own nieve views and expectations, we have got into this situation.

I am more worried of the fact that if they stand in front of the house at either or both doors (front and back) as soon as we open the door . there foots will be in and they will have obtained access simply through loitering outside.

I have seen all the programmes about bailiffs and phoning the police, dosn't seem to help as they are not allowed to act on civil matters, even if they do barge there ways in.

Regards

[djweeble]

Don't waste the money on locks, you don't need to as they have NO RIGHT of forceable entry, and even if they did have, no lock would stop them if they really wanted entry.

Pay the money direct to the council, that will not only show willing, but it will also put the amount in dispute, two good arguements towards getting the council to call off the dogs.

[DJXplosion]

Originally Posted by djweeble

Don't waste the money on locks, you don't need to as they have NO RIGHT of forceable entry, and even if they did have, no lock would stop them if they really wanted entry.

Pay the money direct to the council, that will not only show willing, but it will also put the amount in dispute, two good arguements towards getting the council to call off the dogs.

Unfortunately the locks have already been ordered as i dont think my girlfriends heart could cope with anymore nocks on the door, she is very nervous and terrified of these people.

We have tried contacting the council before and the problem is they either dont respond or deny any knowledge of contact, its kind of us against them and the council will always win.

[demon_x_slash]

If you go to your local council's website, it will have a section that allows you to pay money to it online. Start paying whatever you can afford (not crippling yourself, be sensible, you need to eat and be warm!) through this, marking it as whatever year you're short on. This will give you a record of payment. Keep doing this as often as you can.
Don't open the door to bailiffs at all. If you must, talk to them from the first floor window. You can leave a letter taped to your door for them stating that the council have accepted the first installments of a payment plan, and they are therefore requested to pass the warrant back to the council. It is against OFT guidelines to attempt to collect payment in full; also, failure to pass on an offer of a payment plan.
Write to your council tax department, by Recorded (signed for) telling them exactly what you told us: that you were unaware that the council had not corrected the incorrect bill, that you were surprised that the council had not informed you sooner, that you acknowledge that you are fully liable for this amount, that you have started paying part of the amount online (include evidence, a bank statement or printout of the payment receipt) and would like to offer £X a month/week for X months/week until the debt is cleared. Include an income/outgoing list to show that it is all you can genuinely afford if you wish. Request that the bailiff's warrant is withdrawn as you would prefer dealing with the council direct, and as the bailiff has used threatening and intimidatory language. Thank them for their help and request any and every response in WRITING.

See how that goes and let us know. Good luck. Just remember - DON'T open the door!

[djweeble]

Unfortunately the locks have already been ordered as i dont think my girlfriends heart could cope with anymore nocks on the door, she is very nervous and terrified of these people.

I'm sorry, but you're letting your girlfriends unfounded fears overide what would be the best course of action.

Cancel the locks, they are not required, they are a waste of money, and are useless anyway. Pay the council instead.

Just sit your girlfriend down and tell her the home truths, she'll eventually come round to realising that this is the best way.

[DJXplosion]

Originally Posted by djweeble

I'm sorry, but you're letting your girlfriends unfounded fears overide what would be the best course of action.

Cancel the locks, they are not required, they are a waste of money, and are useless anyway. Pay the council instead.

Just sit your girlfriend down and tell her the home truths, she'll eventually come round to realising that this is the best way.

I will sit down with her this evening and can make a payment to council first thing on friday morning .

I will also put a note on the door to the bailiff, can anyone give me advice on how to word this, i dont think the simple **** off would surfice.

Regards

[demon_x_slash]

When the payment goes through online, the council have 'accepted' the payment. So something along the lines of, Dear Mr Bailiff, This is to inform you that your client has accepted the first payment in an offered direct payment plan on this debt. We expect the warrant on this debt to be recalled shortly. We are aware of the schedule of fees able to be charged by court-appointed bailiffs and any attempt to overcharge for any services already rendered will be contested vigorously. Thank you for your time.

It may not be official but it may give you a little more time in which to talk to the council and get an installment plan set up.

EDIT: In the meantime, get that letter to the council sent off asap. Can you make a payment at all before Friday? Even of £10 or so? It shows that as soon as you were made aware of the problem, you made an attempt to pay what you could. Shows willing.

[Seminole]

A couple of things to bear in mind. The bailff can enter any unlocked outbuildings eg a shed. They can also levy on your car so it would be best to park it either in a your garage if you have one or away from the property.

To re-emphasise the points made above, the bailiff cannot force entry unless they have gained peaceful entry first. They can't just stick a foot in the door and you are entitled to take the obvious action if they attempt to do this.

If Rossendales won't be reasonable (and I've never heard of them being so) then your best bet is, as suggested, to start making unilateral payments to the Council and play a waiting game with Rossendales. They will eventually pass the account back to the council. It's quite likely that the council will then either try some other method of debt recovery (some are starting to use bankruptcy) or they will pass it on to the magistrates court for committal proceedings to commence. You need to deal with either of these scenarios very urgently as one could see you bankrupt and the other could put you in prison.

[demon_x_slash]

Seminole - just to clarify, the best way to defend from the last two options is to show evidence of payments, and willingness to pay, but the need for a payment plan as unable to pay in full? Is that correct?

[DJXplosion]

Originally Posted by seminole

A couple of things to bear in mind. The bailff can enter any unlocked outbuildings eg a shed. They can also levy on your car so it would be best to park it either in a your garage if you have one or away from the property.

To re-emphasise the points made above, the bailiff cannot force entry unless they have gained peaceful entry first. They can't just stick a foot in the door and you are entitled to take the obvious action if they attempt to do this.

If Rossendales won't be reasonable (and I've never heard of them being so) then your best bet is, as suggested, to start making unilateral payments to the Council and play a waiting game with Rossendales. They will eventually pass the account back to the council. It's quite likely that the council will then either try some other method of debt recovery (some are starting to use bankruptcy) or they will pass it on to the magistrates court for committal proceedings to commence. You need to deal with either of these scenarios very urgently as one could see you bankrupt and the other could put you in prison.

So basically if i start making payments to the council on a regular basis, there is still nothing to say that i or my partner wont end up in prison??? If this is the case then i have a 42" LCD tv for sale, i use this for my DJ work as i do karaoke, but i can live without it and i aint letting rossendales get there hands on it either.

Regards

[Seminole]

Prison is very unlikely if the Council goes down the committal proceedings route and you are actually making payments at a level you can demonstrate that you can afford. It's really only aimed at the won't pays.

I am more worried about the bankruptcy issue. I can't remember the link but do a search for threads started by seylectric. His partner has just been made bankrupt by Blackpool council in a way that seems to have driven a coach and horses through the law. I don;t know the precise circumstances or whether any payments were being made but I think that this is a new development. Again (and I would stress this) it's very unlikely if you are making payments you can afford.

[funbint]

Which council is it ?
And what area do you live ?
Is the bailiff male or female ?

The reason for the questions are my partner was a bailiff for Rossendales for a number of years, the advice is dont sign anything and dont let em in..

[DJXplosion]

Originally Posted by funbint

Which council is it ?
And what area do you live ?
Is the bailiff male or female ?

The reason for the questions are my partner was a bailiff for Rossendales for a number of years, the advice is dont sign anything and dont let em in..

Its warrington borough council and i live in warrington. The bailiff is female, but i cant work her name out cause her signature is so illegable.

I have absolutely no problems with bailiffs i think the job they do helps the economy and must be hard, what i do have a problem with is people thinking they owe you and talking and treating you like a peice of dirt and you dare not shout back at them because it just winds them up and they have the power, or so they think

These People are silly, i would be amazed if they used there real names to be honest, but if they do, its very easy to find out someones resedential address, specially when your an acomplished web developer i bet they wouldnt like someone parked outside there house harrassing them.