Really unfair Paypal chargeback

happyandbroke · 7th June 2007, 18:03

Hi all, just wanted a few thoughts of how to tackle this. Sold an item on ebay, £520.00, buyer paid by Paypal. Buyer collected...yes I know I shouldn't have let him collect...I've been told numerous times before!! In the seller guidance notes it states 'post to Confirmed address', he was unconfirmed! and to top it all when I tried to contact him by phone the line was dead...He had only just registered 2 days before he won the bid.
As I was concerned I called paypal to ask what I should because a) no confirmed address & tel no. and b) if he collects the goods & something went wrong with the paypal transaction where would I stand? I was advised my money is 100% guaranteed & should anything happen regarding the recent transaction i.e decline/payment returned etc Paypal would chase the buyer not me for the money. 2 months later exactly that happened, he claimed a chargeback against me..reason - he didnt authorise the payment. I have complied with everything paypal have asked me to do, yet they still favoured with the buyer & have refunded his credit card....Poo! As this, in my opinion, is theft against me I reported to both the police & Trading standards. My arguments are:
1. I didnt post because the address & tel no were Unconfirmed!! when it clearly states post to Confirmed address!
2. I was acting on advice given to me by the advisor at Paypal..Who am I to argue with, who I thought was knowledgable of Paypal's policies.
3. Why consider even backing this fraudster when he started the claim against me exactly 2 months after to the day! Isnt that suspect? You would notice fraudulent use of your own credit card as soon as you get your next statement surely? Or Am i being a naive Dumb Dumb!!

As i've already reported this as a criminal offence, should I take the fraudster to court to either get back the goods or the value to be put back into my account, or, if its possible to take Paypal to court for wrong info given initially. I work in a call centre where financial transaction take place & I know it IS possible to trace a call. Although I dont have the advisor's name I do have a date and a time window of 2 hours.
Which route do you think I should take, I'm not going to take this lying down , I'm going to fight it all the way but not sure how.

In the meantime Paypal have now got Robinson Way after me...dirty tactics or what!

make_me_happy · 8th June 2007, 11:16

Well, I don't think there is much you can do, especially if the buyer registered with a fake address also. I don't really know the process once sold over the net, but my husband has got a retail shop and we have been charged back a few times when customers came and paid for goods and the magnetic strip on the card was not working and we had to key in the number. Once you key in the number you have got to take an imprint of the card if not you loose the money once a chargeback occurs. It is a very nasty worlsd for the sellers who are not protected at all from those fraudsters. XX

skbuncks · 8th June 2007, 12:28

Not that it helps but I had a serious falling out with paypal last year. Basically i sold some debenhams vouchers I had got as a 'bonus' from work over ebay for £40. The guy who won paid through paypal immediately and had a good ebay rating. I sent the vouchers recorded delivery, unfortunately I threw out the receipt once they had arrived and we had both left our ebay feedback (positive on both counts). A month later £40 disappears out of my bank account which I track back to paypal. Basically this guy had claimed it was an unauthorised transaction. Paypal would give me no more detials than that due to Data Protection. Basically I think this guy was claiming his card had been stolen or something. So I went back onto ebay to check this guy out - his account ws now inactive an he'd been buying shed loads of vouchers from all an sundry. Lots of his feedback was now coming up as non payer etc. I emailed a couple of the people he'd bought vouchers from and the same thing that had happened to me had happened to them.
Now for the really annoying part. Some of the vouchers he'd bought were after the date he'd clawed back the cash from mine. Clearly if his card had been stolen he would have reported it and put a stop on the card. I commucated this to paypal and surprise surprise they just didnt want to know, apparently I wasnt a verified customer and neither was he there was nothing they could/would do. I tried to complain to ebay but this is just about impossible unless your a power seller.

The moral of the story is if your going to use paypal make sure your verified to max and that buyer is also verified. If not you wont have a leg to stand on when things go pear shaped

skb

happyandbroke · 8th June 2007, 12:45

Thanks for your response, I am now realising the more posts I read that it doesn't make an ounce of difference whether you're verified or not, sent out items secure delivery etc, Paypal make their own rules, they don't stick to t & c's, they get around every scenario possible. I read on a post recently that a seller had even got a tracking no, the buyers excuse...was out of the country, someone else must have signed!! Paypal favoured the buyer, the seller lost out again. Their T & C's are not worth the paper they are written on, so what hope does anyone have at all?
Lesson learnt? definately, never to use Paypal again and as for the money they're are trying to recover from me?....swivel!!!

sillygirl1 · 9th June 2007, 09:51

Paypal are now registered in Luxembourg, and they claim they don't come under the UK banking regulations because of that, but they do now come under general EEC law and Luxembourg are quite tough about people using their laws to hide under.

Perhaps somebody expert in EEC financial transactions could help out. Luckily I've only had one dodgy deal on Paypal and the buyer backed out when I mentioned the shiel bid done and the grossly inflated shipping price. I'd bought a similar item from a mainstream supplier and got charged 1/3rd less postage than he claimed - with the same courier co! Shut him up completely.

buzby · 9th June 2007, 21:04

Firstly there's no 'EEC' and hasn't been for years. It is 'EC' or European Community or Parliament law. PayPal are well known for taking a black and white view of transactions - unless all the boxes are ticked, the seller remains at risk. It certainly is unfair, but it certainly alerts you to the scams that can be perpetrated, and after 5 years I can smell them a mile away. You will too!

sillygirl1 · 10th June 2007, 11:27

Sorry, showing my age about the EEC.... but now that Paypal aren't registered in the UK or Ireland they don't come under the complaints procedures of the Financial Services Ombudsman or the OFfice of Fair Trading - unfair or what! As an international company that must surely be wrong, they should be bound under the rules of whichever country the sale of the goods originated in.... and their common law practices where T&Cs don't apply ... does anyone else agree?

happyandbroke · 10th June 2007, 11:40

Yes I do. As for my particular case then, I was previously advised to complain to the FSA, but if what you say is true then they won't be of any help. I've yet to hear from Trading standards & police, my case has only been recently passed to them from Consumer Direct. I can't see that they will be of any help either, because of Paypal not being registered in the UK.

happyandbroke · 13th June 2007, 20:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by sillygirl1

Sorry, showing my age about the EEC.... but now that Paypal aren't registered in the UK or Ireland they don't come under the complaints procedures of the Financial Services Ombudsman or the OFfice of Fair Trading - unfair or what! As an international company that must surely be wrong, they should be bound under the rules of whichever country the sale of the goods originated in.... and their common law practices where T&Cs don't apply ... does anyone else agree?

Just a quick update, I've had an email from Paypal regarding their changes, and apparently they are still currently regulated by the FSA, the change will take place on 2nd July. And in response to Skbuncks post, I am 'UK verified' but ineligible for SPP?? Can't understand why. Anyway just drafted up a letter of complaint to Paypal complaints dept in Surrey. Trading standards have said they'll look into this for me but no promises! In the meantime they've suggested I force PP into a corner by refusing to make any paymnts, & to make them take me to court, & with the evidence I have already, I would have a case for defence. I'm not so sure, sounds a bit daunting to me...What if I lost

happyandbroke · 15th June 2007, 21:59

Yahoooooo!!! Just wanted to let you all know, Paypal have just sent me an email stating:

"We are pleased to inform you that we have successfully disputed chargeback case no.PP********. The buyer's card issuer has decided in your favour and within seven days you will receive reimbursement for 520.00 GBP.

It is PayPal's standard practice to dispute wrongful chargebacks. One of
the benefits of using PayPal is that our team of chargeback specialists
will gather the necessary information from you and work with the credit
card company until the chargeback is resolved.

We appreciate your prompt response to our request for information about this transaction."

Thanks to everyone who took the time to read my thread & post replies.
I'm so so happy now!!!

feelrobbed · 28th August 2008, 09:30

I need some help asap!! I joined eBay back in May of this year 08' and was moving along very rapidly with perfect results both selling and buying until I got around my 60th positive feedback. Then it came fast and furious. I started selling guitars, I had already sold several and had really good feedback from those. Next my son had to have emergency surgery and one week later my father did as well and between work and emergencies I had no time to ship my items as quick as i had been. I emailed my buyers and told them the situation and they were fine with it. 12 days after auction closed a buyer filed a claim against me, called my local authorities, called my phone several times very rude and hateful, and then started sending messages to my other buyers even after being very nice at the beggining and understanding. Like a light switch he turned. I took off work and went and shipped the item just 5 days later than Paypal recommends. He said he did not care and would refuse package which he did and gave me very very nasty feedback, even lying in the feedback. then it was like a snowball affect, two more buyers filed claims stating not as described and sent items back to me, they were literally just a couple microscopic scratches on the guitars and you could not see them unless you held them right up next to a light and they were no longer than a centimeter each. Then one more guy did as well. I got a few more positive feedbacksfrom other buyers though and one of them sent me email he had received from the buyer who gave methe first neg asking him to join in. So now Paypal is asking me to add $5000.00 to my account they say I owe them and the claims are not even settled, meanwhile, I can't use my paypal account to buy items I won and now sellers are coming after me wanting their money. Somehow even after all of this, $1600.00 I had in my paypal account is just missing and it could be used to pay one of the claims off. I am not a wealthy person. I sold the guitars, a collection of mine, because my family needed the moneyand it has been spent for our needs. Please help me fight this, what can I do?? I believe paypal seller proection is a smokescreen a sham and I haveheard they always side with the buyer and I had on all of my auctions, "sold as is", "all sales final", "no returns". What do I do, where do I turn. I am desperate and scared. Help please.

kim5154 · 30th December 2008, 19:48

I know that your problem with paypal was sometime ago, but I wondered what the outcome was as I am now in the same position. Paypal are very hard to get hold off and despite agreeing to me paying back £20pm have claimed back the full amount of £265. They are a shambles!

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