withholding wages

[knoxvillain]

hi there,

I am currently job hunting and have got a few interviews which means I may be leaving my current employment soon. What is concerning me is that there is a clause in my contract that says if I leave within 6 months of receiving training I have to pay back 100% or with 12 months 50%. I was wondering if my employer is allowed to withhold my final wage as part of this or if this isn't allowed and we'd have to come to some sort of repayment agreement? I'm worried it'll leave me in a position where I can't pay my rent, council tax etc for 1 month because I have no money.

Thanks,

Ian

PS I live in Scotland.

[knoxvillain]

all of it? even if it means me being put into financial hardship?

[gbzstro]

Can you post the chapter from your employment contract?

[JonCris]

Irrespective of your employment contract (unless it states you can pay periodicly after leaving which would be most unsual) if you owe the money they can withold all of it when you leave. You would only be able to enforce some sort of agreement if you where staying such as 10% per monthly/weekly salary payment.

However you don't say if they are reasonable. If so you could ask that you repay them over a period of say 6 months. To show willingness suggest payment by monthly Standing Order. You might be surprised.

[knoxvillain]

Rights to pay

am I misreading that because it seems to me they can't.

gbzstro - I will try and locate my contract and post the chapter asap

whats worrying me is that I am already on a debt management program and I don't have anything in the way of savings so if I switch job and they withhold my wages then I won't be able to pay rent, food, council tax or anything for a month. I feel almost trapped into my current job by this.

JonCris, I haven't actually resigned yet, I am currently job hunting and have had a couple of interviews, I'm just trying to find out what the situation is and what the worst case scenario is likely to be before I go accepting a job offer. I would definitely approach my employer about coming to some arrangement however they do have a reputation for being quite heavy handed with things like this.

I suppose the other option I would have would be to just quit and not work any notice period but I don't want to go down that road unless I have to. It would certainly beat not having to eat for a month.

[JonCris]

Is it in your contract that you will be required to repay your training costs if you leave or are dismissed within a certain time period. Did your training take the form of formal training such as paid courses, or was it just on the job training

[JonCris]

Originally Posted by knoxvillain

Rights to pay

am I misreading that because it seems to me they can't.

gbzstro - I will try and locate my contract and post the chapter asap

whats worrying me is that I am already on a debt management program and I don't have anything in the way of savings so if I switch job and they withhold my wages then I won't be able to pay rent, food, council tax or anything for a month. I feel almost trapped into my current job by this.

JonCris, I haven't actually resigned yet, I am currently job hunting and have had a couple of interviews, I'm just trying to find out what the situation is and what the worst case scenario is likely to be before I go accepting a job offer. I would definitely approach my employer about coming to some arrangement however they do have a reputation for being quite heavy handed with things like this.

I suppose the other option I would have would be to just quit and not work any notice period but I don't want to go down that road unless I have to. It would certainly beat not having to eat for a month.

You missed the bit under retail workers which I think you will find applies to all types of employment

[knoxvillain]

can you quote the bit you are referring to? thanks.

There are particular deductions which an employer can make which do not have to fit into the categories listed above. These deductions are:-

• a deduction because the worker has been genuinely overpaid
• a deduction made because the employee took part in industrial action
• a deduction made by an employer under a court order or an order from an employment tribunal, such as an attachment of earnings order (in Scotland, an earnings arrestment)

I don't feel any of these apply, are you referring to a different bit? Sorry for being silly.

Thanks again for your help, i appreciate it, this has got me a bit stressed out.

[JonCris]

If you scroll down on the website you supplied as reference to retail workers you will see the bit about the employer being able to deduct, in full, any money owing when they leave their employment & its' to be remembered that retail employees enjoy special protection under the law.

All of this is just speculation until you tell us what your contract states & how your training was received

[knoxvillain]

thanks, ok I will look out my contract when I go home for lunch and post it. It does state about paying back the training but it doesn't mention any terms for paying it back. The training was pretty much being sent away to places to attend 2-3 day courses and also sitting certification exams.

The other thing I wondered was, my employment contract was given to me when I joined the company as a System Engineer, I have now moved on to become a Storage Consultant. Would the original contract still be valid even though I have now changed role? I never recieved a new contract since I moved job. Both my job title, role and wages are different now from stated on the contract.

[JonCris]

I assume you have been promoted & I also assume this was confirmed in writing Eitherway you change in job/description & salary isn't relevant unless you where demoted recieved a lower salary & you objected at the time.

If you have been promoted & receive a higher salary & based on that you sort legal recourse to avoid a debt to your employer the court would probably consider you a vexatious litigant

[knoxvillain]

ok thanks

I'm not trying to avoid debt, I just don't want to be left in poverty for a month. I'll pay it back to them, I did sign the contract, I just want to be able to do it in reasonable terms but I do want to know my legal position in case they do get heavy handed and decide to withhold my final wage despite me asking them not to.

Like I've said, none of this has happened yet I just want to be prepared for the worst. Hopefully a polite e-mail to the finance director explaining my situation wil sort it all out. I'd much rather do that. Plus I obviously want to leave on good terms with my employer for the purposed of a reference.

[JonCris]

I realize that & its a tremendous dilema your in but I was only suggesting to you what I thought the courts would think in the cold light of day.

It seems to me that you will only know whats going to happen when it happens. You could of course ask any prospective or new employer if they will grant a loan so you repay you former employer to be or indeed ask for sub to be paid back in installments

[knoxvillain]

suppose I could alway grovel to my parents as well

I would sincerely hope that (whilst the above posts are materially innacurate), that they do take account of the fact that the law in Scotland may be different....

[artoo]

Have you actually signed the contract that has the clause that lets them make the deduction? If you did sign it then legally they could deduct it, sorry.

The law is in S13 of the Employment Rights Act 1996 and it also applys to Scotland.

[knoxvillain]

nevermind, I just looked out my contract and there is a clause in there that answers this which I didn't know was in there (obviously I read it at the time but forgot about it over the years). The clause reads basically that if at anytime during my employment or upon termination of my employment I owe my employer money then they can deduct it from "any payment due to you from your employer whether wages or salary or payment of any other kind" which will cover expenses too. *sigh* So I don't have a leg to stand on unless they let me pay it back over a while out of the kind-ness of their heart.

Obviously my contract mentions a period of notice of one month, what are the likely consequences of just quitting and walking out other than not being able to get a reference?