Sky Subscriber Services

[buzby]

Those forum members with the good sense NOT to trust SSL Ltd with a DDM might be interested to know of a (possible) forthcoming action I plan to takee against this Rupert Murdoch-owned facility.

Should the satellite viewer have the temerity not to give Sky unfettered access to their bank account, they have a sanction to 'fine' those people by levying a £4 charge each month on their account, referring to it as an 'Invoice' charge.

Back in 2003 I had set up a direct credit arrangement that paid my monthly fee one week in advance of the billing date, this meant that as the account was always in credit, no fee was applied. This worked well for many months until, and without notice SSL Ltd changed my billing date bringing it forward by one week. There was no advance notice of this, so as the credit now arrived on the same day as the debit but was applied at the days end, the £4 'fine' was added. Despite complaining to CS, they refused to budge, and 5 months later my accouint was cancelled by them, it showed and overdue balance of £20 (5 x £4) as the viewing charges were always paid.

To cut a long story short - the matter was referred to Westscot Credit for collection and the debt subsequently sold on to the Lowell Group. All parties were advised in writing of Sky's failings, and a Section 40 letter of unjustified harassment to Lowell stopped all further contact, and I assumed that the matter had been resolved.

In 2005/2006 I was interested to note receipt of 'Come Back to Sky' mailings, which promoted as a 'feature' that they would waive any ourstanding debt up to £40. I didn't think anything of this, until I noticed a neighbour's mailing which had the same design, but instead of the debt arrangement, he would get 6 months at half-price.

I wrote to SSL's Livingston CS for clarification and they responded that there was a £20 debt outstanding and as it had been sold to Lowell, I should contact them to make payment. (Clearly they didn't read the letter I sent). Replying, I reiterated what happened, and said that if the overdue amount was not cleared, and my costs of £50 refunded to send 13 letters to various agencies to resolve trhe issue, court action would follow.

I received a fob-off letter from another droid, telling me to contact Lowell. I then sent SSL a Notice Before Action. This generated a more positive response, from a supervisor, who said that as a token of 'goodwill' they have recinded the £20 outstanding and I would receive confirmation from Lowell noting this had been done (I've not received this yet). However, my claims of £50 expenses and the removal of all adverse data from CRA's was refused.

I replied, stating that as the £20 debit balance was wrong for two reasons and I would not accept this as a 'goodwill' removal. I requested the £50 as originally claimed, along with the adverse data removal, and I am still awaiting their response to this but if they do not comply, I will autimatically raise a Small Claims action and advise the outcome here.

Finally, if anyone is actually paying £4.00pm because Sky bill them an 'Invoice' charge, they might be well advised to have a look very closely at the monthly communication they receive from Sky, it ISN'T an Invoice, Sky call it a 'Statement' (the terms are not interchangeable) so you might want to request a refund for all the £4's you paid for an Invoice that never materialised..... and take them to court if they don't!

[Allyxia]

wow are you psychic?

I have been having this battle with sky for months and months.

They take money when they want to, they double up payment when they want to. The amount of times I have told them to stop it.

(I bet nearly 70% of all bank charges Im claim are due to sky)

They even set up new DDM when I have cancelled them (how can they do that)

I was going to post a message today about "who do you complain to when organisation break the DD guarentee"

I have even warned my bank to stop aceepting new mandates from Sky.

So now Im in the £4 a month situation. I wish I could have NTL where I live coz I wana kick sky up the Butt.

[buzby]

I didn't mention the haphazard way thery actually administered my DDM when they had a valid one - in most cases the DDM was taken but never applied to the account. When queried I was always told to go to my bank. When I explained that I could see the debits showing as paid to SSL on my screen they were unmoved. 'Your Bank has to confirm this'. Faced with the fact that it was SKY who took the money, they fact they couldn;t trace it through their billing system made me cancel the DDM as they were not to be trusted. Even the DDM Guarantee didn't cover me, so I resolved enough was enough. The £4.00 fine each month because I won;t let them mess me around again is a case in point, as they did not act in a responsible matter, I see no reason why I should be disadvantaged because of their errors.

[buzby]

Originally Posted by alyxsavage

wow are you psychic?
So now Im in the £4 a month situation. I wish I could have NTL where I live coz I wana kick sky up the Butt.

To be honest, NTL isn't much better, and having suffered similarly with a £4pm charge they now credit me with £12 each quarter to cover my non-DDM costs, which whilst not ideal, at least redresses the balance somewhat.

As to your current problem, just ensure that you remit to Sky (preferably by BACS) at least 8 days before your Invoice date, providing there's enough paid in to cover their charge for services, your 'Invoice' fee will not be applied - this trick was told to me by CS staff.

IF - subsequently - you DO get with with the £4 'Invoice' charge, just make sure they actually sent you an Invoice (not a Statement) and if not, dispute the charge.

[Allyxia]

ah ah thats a good idea will do that.

[M the Merciless]

To be honest, NTL isn't much better, and having suffered similarly with a £4pm charge they now credit me with £12 each quarter to cover my non-DDM costs, which whilst not ideal, at least redresses the balance somewhat.

How did you get them to do that? I am furious about the way they penalise you for daring not give them carte blanche to raid your account, and would dearly like to challenge that.

[buzby]

Customer Services will not (cannot?) negotiate this point, saying that it is an automated system and the charge cannot be removed. I then explained I accepted paying them £24pa as the cost of doing business with them (when it was £2pm), but now this had risen to £48, I was not prepared to take it any further, and I would cancel. They transferred me to what was their 'Disconnections' department, now more trendily called 'Retentions' (!). It didn;t help that I had to explain the whole thing all over again, but the staffer agreed that this fee, and the fact it was now costing money call call CS and Faults, they were being kept busy placating annoyed customers.

Her solution to my problem was to arrange a 'discretionary credit' to cover the extra fees that were deing applied to the account. The maximum she could authorise was £12, which would cover the previous month and the next two. She then asked me to take a note of her number and extention, and to call back in three months to request a further credit. It can be annoying having to remember to call them every quarter, but as I save nearly £50pa, I don't mind.

Incidentally, NTL have just announced that they have re-introduced the service numbers 150 (Customer Service) and 151 (Faults) as no-cost numbers. They say this will take effect from 2nd October, but it alwary works from the Glasgow franchise.

[M the Merciless]

Maybe, but they are also now going to charge the £10 late fee as soon as you don't pay by the due date, so... Giving with one hand, taking with the other, it seems...And giving is not even giving, it's more like putting back what they had taken away in the first place....

[buzby]

Oh absolutely, but the secret is to use a PDA to ensure you don't get out of step. There's also the Reconnection Fee of £20, which will be on top of the £10 Late Fee....

I'm also ready to challenge them on this, as (with my account anyway) it takes them 1 full week to deliver a statement (dated the 14th, rarely delivered before the 21st). If the late fee is billed on 28th after only having the bill for 7 days, this can and will be challenged.

[M the Merciless]

The £10 late payment can and will be challenged anyway, since it's not a genuine pre-estimate of their costs. And of course, by charging the same amount straight away than they did when you are very late in paying, it comes straight under Campbell v Bridge:

In the case of Campbell Discount Co Ltd v Bridge [1962] AC 600, the House of Lords struck down as a penalty a clause in a hire purchase agreement requiring the hirer to pay compensation for premature termination. The objectionable feature of this clause was that it provided a sliding scale which operated in the wrong direction. The less the depreciation of the vehicle, the greater was the compensation payable.

{2p}

[buzby]

No argument from me, but then - like the £4 non-DDM fees, 98% of consumers will roll over and pay up.

[Allyxia]

I bloddy hate sky!!!!!!!!

Grrrrrr and Tesco and Council Tax and Parking Wardens and banks Grrrrrr

[buzby]

Welcome to the *real* world!

[Allyxia]

and breathhhhhhh

[lucyec]

Wow, interesting thread. I never knew that the £4 was a 'fine' for not paying by DD. I am having dealings with Westcot on behalf of Sky currently. I owed them £80. I paid £40 in July with a promise of £40 in August. Someone from Westcot called me the beginning of last week to say I now owe them £160. This is made up of the £40 that I already owed them plus £120 charge as I was all of 5 days late with my final payment!! I told the (not very pleasant) woman from Westcot I was quite willing to make the £40 payment but they can whistle for the £120.... surely this is taking the p**s ever so slightly??!!

Anyway... its reassuring to know I'm not the only one having problems with Sky/Westcot. Is it feaseable to request statements using the S.A.R and reclaim the £4 charges as well as late payment charges etc?

Any guidance gratefully received...I am on a roll at the moment and want to make a stand against all the companies/banks/DCAs/store cards that have been taking the p**s out of me for many years

L