Thistle Hotel - Payment problem

[davey_weir]

I didnt know the correct thread to post this so if any admins want to move it to a more relevant section feel free.

Basically I stayed at a Thistle Hotel last night. They "pre-authorised" £97 for the room. Then, the guy at reception told me he would give us a special rate of £50 B&B. This morning I checked out and was told I had to pay as they had only pre-authorised the £97. I said fine and handed my card over, the lady tried to take £97 and I had to explain that I had accepted an offer of a room for £50. The lady agreed and then asked me had I done any laundry. I said no so she removed a laundry charge from the bill. I then paid the £50.

I came home and have just recently been on my online banking. £97 has gone. I called my bank who confirmed that £97 has left my account and they couldnt get it back. They told me the Hotel would have to give me a refund for me to get the money back (I have a recording of the NatWest advisor telling me this).

I called the hotel to tell them this and after some to'ing and fro'ing the lady said that they have only taken £50, not £97. They said they only had a hold of £97 but didnt actually take it. I explained I had a recording of a guy telling me that it has gone. She wasnt interested and hung up. I called back and tried to explain that the Thistle had taken £97. Again, she wouldnt have it. She said she has faxed their bank to cancel the pre authorisation but this could take 10 days.

Does anyone have any advice on what I should do here? Theyve taken £97 when they told me they havent, and then told me I hadnt paid so I had to pay £50.

[postggj]

i believe the 97 quid is a holding deposit
you paid 50 quid, fine, that will be debited as normal
the 97 quid, all though authorised, will not be called for by the hotel

after 14 days max, your bank will credit the 97 quid back into your account as the hotel has not put it through the system

works the same with car hire

[davey_weir]

They have put it through the system though and its showing on my account. My bank has also confirmed it has left my account.

[postggj]

fax your statement to the bank
demand a charge back

[davey_weir]

What do you mean? The bank are sending me statements out.

[postggj]

sorry
i thought when you were at your bank, they would have printed one off for you

[davethorp]

Right perhaps some explanation of how the NatWest banking system works would help with an example (however suffice it to say postggj is correct).

I do my shopping online with asda. My shopping bill comes to £80 when I order and I check internet banking on the day of delivery and indeed £80 has gone out. The bloke comes with my shopping and £10 worth was out of stock and not substituted so infact my shopping came to £70. But my internet banking still shows £80 as this is the amount they preauthorised.

However, two days later the £80 transaction vanishes off my internet banking and is replaced by one for £70. All is well and good and I hang fire with sueing Asda for the missing tenner.

A similar thing has happened to you and basically it all goes down to how NatWest's internet banking works. If you look at the transaction online you will just have a date and an amount. It wont show where the transaction has come from.

Once the transaction finalises and internet banking does show details of where it has come from it will be for the correct amount and not the preauthorised amount (or there may be a further refund transaction for the difference depending on if they actually took the preauthorised amount)

If by end of week it hasn't sorted then by all means try and get a chargeback

[davey_weir]

Originally Posted by postggj

sorry
i thought when you were at your bank, they would have printed one off for you

No no I spoke to an advisor over the telephone.

[postggj]

thanks for putting it better davethrop
you get where i was comming from

[davey_weir]

Originally Posted by davethorp

Right perhaps some explanation of how the NatWest banking system works would help with an example (however suffice it to say postggj is correct).

I do my shopping online with asda. My shopping bill comes to £80 when I order and I check internet banking on the day of delivery and indeed £80 has gone out. The bloke comes with my shopping and £10 worth was out of stock and not substituted so infact my shopping came to £70. But my internet banking still shows £80 as this is the amount they preauthorised.

However, two days later the £80 transaction vanishes off my internet banking and is replaced by one for £70. All is well and good and I hang fire with sueing Asda for the missing tenner.

A similar thing has happened to you and basically it all goes down to how NatWest's internet banking works. If you look at the transaction online you will just have a date and an amount. It wont show where the transaction has come from.

Once the transaction finalises and internet banking does show details of where it has come from it will be for the correct amount and not the preauthorised amount (or there may be a further refund transaction for the difference depending on if they actually took the preauthorised amount)

If by end of week it hasn't sorted then by all means try and get a chargeback

But should this affect my available balance, because it has!

[davethorp]

Yes it should because the pre-authorisation amount is the amount that has come off your balance. Once NatWest receive the transaction details which is normally 2 days later the transaction will update to the correct amount.

In my Asda example above, for the two days before NatWest catch up yes my available balance would be £10 lower than it should be.

At a guess if the transaction was done this morning, all should be fixed by Wednesday.

[davey_weir]

It was done on saturday night about 11.15

[davethorp]

You checked out Sunday morning though (sorry got days muddled)

Either way, Saturday and Sunday were not treated as banking days so again it should be Wednesday when it sorts itself out

[davey_weir]

Right. Having checked my online banking again I found that £72 went to Thistle Hotel, Haydock. There is also a card payment taken on the 16th Nov for £50 which is the payment they took on Sunday morning. I spoke to the hotel who's account dept told me they would look into it as it didnt seem right. Then, the snotty receptionist who hung up on me twice yesterday called me. Cutting a long story short, she told me that the charges stood, the room rate was not £50 and it was infact £97. She said the night manager had confirmed this. She also said the night manager had put a laundry charge on for "vomit." I told her no one from our party was sick. She then said I had signed a reservation card which was a legal requirement. I told her I had signed nothing. She then said she had CCTV footage of "the incident" of me spewing. I said well if thats the case do you have CCTV of the reception. She said the whole area yeah. I said well study it long and hard and you will see that I signed nothing. And you have just stated that the reservation card being signed by me was a legal requirement - therefore your night manager obviously is incompetent in his job role as he has mis-sold a room by quoting the wrong rate, and then letting someone else sign a reservation card and enter my pin. She said well you wont get any money back but you should put it in writing. I then told her I would be reporting certainly the £72 as a fraudulent transaction and she should expect to hear from either myself, my bank or both within the very near future. I then hung up on her

Anyone have any advice on where to go with this?

[SickofA&L]

This may or may not help you as I work for a different (larger) hotel chain but the process should be the same. Firstly I need to know whether a pre-booking was made or whether you just turned up at the hotel and requested a room?

[davey_weir]

We booked the room the night we arrived.

[davey_weir]

UPDATE

Received this letter yesterday. Dated 17th November

Dear Me

Please find attached a receipt for the £72.00 charge left outstanding on your bill, in reference to your stay on November 15th 2008.

Your room was booked with our Night Manager who informed you that the cost was £97.00 bed and breakfast, not £50.00 as you stated on check out. As such, the remaining £47.00 has been charged to your card.

There was also a £25.00 charge added to your bill due to the fact you had been sick in the lounge. The Guest Relations Manager explained this to you on the night.

If you wish to discuss this further, please contact me on 01942 272000

Yours sincerely

Debbie White
Head Receptionist

A few things:
1) The Night Manager informed other guests that their room as well as mine was £50.00 bed and breakfast.
2) The girl agreed with this when I checked out and also said she would remove a "laundry charge"
3) I didnt speak to the Night Manager at all
4) Nor the Guest Relations Manager

Attached is the following invoice

Date Description Debit Credit
15/11 Accomodation 47.00
15/11 Accomodation 50.00
15/11 Laundry CLEANING OF VOMIT 25.00
16/11 Solo xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xx/xx 50.00
16/11 Solo xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xx/xx 72.00
Balance £0.00

Total amount net £103.83
VAT 17.5% £18.17
VAT 3.5% £0.00
Total Sterling 122.00

Again a few more things
5) I only paid the £50.00, as agreed, on the 16th when I checked out
6) If I entered my pin once, and it was on the 16th, why are there 2 transactions on the 16th for different amounts
7) "Vomit" - who vomitted?!?!
8 )The receipt stapled says SALE £72.00 AUTH NO: 2639 16th Nov 2008 Time 22:45 *CUSTOMER NOT PRESENT*

I was at home at 22.45 on the 16th Nov!!

I need to write back to them, and Im looking into obtaining a copy of the other guests receipts.

Any suggestions/ideas??

[SickofA&L]

Hi Gave, sorry for the delay in replying. When you handed the card over at reception on the evening they should have just taken it as a guarantee with no money withdrawn. To take the money you would have either consented to 'quick check-out' where you just drop your key in a box at reception and they charge your room cost plus extras like meals charged to your room. If it was standard checkout the computer would show the £50 plus anything you requested to be charged to the room during your stay at which point you sign, enter pin etc.
I'm very surprised that the letter has come from the head receptionist because to be honest they dont have any power and complaints are usually dealt with by the general manager or deputy general manager.
The rate they have charged you is more than likely the 'rack' rate which is basically the standard rate that any hotel charges. The £50 was probably the 'daily rate' and it could be the case that when you checked in the person who put it into the computer selected the 'rack' because they weren't paying attention.
You're best defence to this would be to go on a hotel booking website and see what rate they are charging for late bookings on the equivalent night to which you stayed and compare this. If it is £50 (or there about) then you have the beginnings to your case.
Dispute the vomit charge and request that they produce documentary or video footage to prove this.
When you put a letter together cc it to the head office complaints department. On the copy to the hotel address it to the general manager with strictly private & confidential on it or it wont get past the back office which is usually the head receptionists office.
Also call your bank and put the amount into dispute and they will investigate it to which should embarass the hotel. Hope this helps

[sequenci]

Wow, I hope you get this one sorted. Best of luck, Seq,

[davey_weir]

See later post.