Chip & PIN Insecurity & Liability

[JimmyTheOne]

Were you aware that it is relatively easy to copy the details of one stolen CHIP card where the PIN hasn’t been compromised on to another Chip card whose PIN is known, then bingo!

Did you know that in France people are now cloning Chip to Chip? This is becoming quite common.

How would you feel if you had a card which you’ve never ever used, and this card was stolen, used with a PIN (that you never knew) and your account emptied. Quite sick if you were held liable, this is happening.

Is your maximum withdrawal limited to between £200 and £500 per day?
Well it’s not for crooks if they skim your card and pinch your PIN.

If you’ve used a SHELL petrol station within the last six months you are advised to change your PIN. Bet you weren’t aware of this!

It is unbelievable that people use the PINs 1234, 1111 or 2222. Some are even using the same PIN for every card. Others fail to change their PINs on a regular basis.

Were you aware that if an ATM or PIN pad is rigged in the USA the operative has a legal duty to inform customers that this has happened at these machines and their accounts may have been compromised? Not so in the UK.

All of the above points were aired on You and Yours, Radio 4, Monday 19 June.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/youandyours/listenagain/monday.shtml

What wasn’t mentioned in this excellent production was that consumers do have an option. The need not have a PIN if they don’t want one or feel insecure using a PIN Anyone can opt for Chip & Signature vice PINs.

So come on CAG contributors let's know how you got on getting the truth from your card issuer and obtaining PIN free cards.

[Rich44]

Is your maximum withdrawal limited to between £200 and £500 per day?
Well it’s not for crooks if they skim your card and pinch your PIN.

I find this very hard to believe the daily transaction limit is set on their computers (well I was told that by the banks anyway) if it was kept on the card you would be able to go and get xx amount from bank a and xx from another bank etc also I can get £200 per day at an ATM from any bank and up to £400 a day from my bank how does that work if its held on the chip?

As for PIN security I would advise anyone to change their PIN on a regular basis anyway, we are often told to change our passwords monthly etc but never our PINs, the system is fatally flawed using the same PIN to authorise transactions and withdraw money was a stupid mistake now our cards are as good as cash to these people.

As for the ATM comment I had this with Tesco and got so fed up with their distinct lack of care or concern for their customers that I went to both the BBC and ITV and got it on at 6pm on both of East Anglias local news items and was due to go onto GMTV with it but the story got pulled (I wish I could have done it I was really looking forward to it they came to me as they said I had a good clear voice and a great argument) I was also on Stephen Rhodes consumer programme too.

I am so angry about Tesco (and any other retailer) who are so lax with our security and they dont care. For example our local Tesco where this happened (Blue Boar Lane Norwich) had just had a multi million pound refit and extension now the new entrance has two big brick pillars supporting the roof of the entrance the ATMs are to the left of this entrance and the ONLY CCTV camera is smack between these 2 pillars so they cannot catch the ATMs I bet the crims love this, furthermore if you venture into the store you can have a look down the magazine and greetings card areas and count the CCTV cameras every 6 feet or so.

TESCO CARE MORE ABOUT THEIR STOCK THAN CUSTOMER SAFETY

I said to the manager so whats to stop stop Mr hardnnasty coming over to the ATMs at night waiting with a baseball bat and robbing Mr Honestnhardworking for the cash he just withdrew care to guess what the answer was???

"We don't assume any liability for customers or their property whilst on our premises"

In theory anyone could do this and get away with it as there are no cameras covering you as you come up to them or away from them.

The police were gutted about it they thought they were gonna catch this massive gang (the money was withdrawn in London) but no footage available.

The answer when I complained instore was "There's your luck, you aren't the first to complain" when I then complained to head office I got "We dont own the ATMs, we don't run the ATMs and we dont assume responsibility for them"

So the bloomin great TESCO BANK writing all over them means naff all then?

Also you might be interested to know that it wasnt just that one Tesco either they have been hit all over East Anglia - A colleague got done in Wisbech around xmas and I believe many of the other big stores have also been hit (the BBC reporter told me at least 6) and Tesco dont think they need to warn customers, put photos on the ATMs showing what they should look like. I also said a really simple way to help would be to have all the machines on the site in question the same the ones here are different so you cannot compare what it should look like with the machine next to it.



We need legislation making stores who have ATMs legally responsible for them after all how difficult is it to get Mr Thinksheshard security guard to check the machines every hour etc???


I'm changing banks soon (thanks Abbey) once I get the money back they owe me and probably close my account and I will ask for a Chip and Signature card see what reaction I get, is there any rule in particular you can quote when asking for one in case they say no?

[JimmyTheOne]

Originally Posted by Rich44

I find this very hard to believe the daily transaction limit is set on their computers (well I was told that by the banks anyway) if it was kept on the card you would be able to go and get xx amount from bank a and xx from another bank etc also I can get £200 per day at an ATM from any bank and up to £400 a day from my bank how does that work if its held on the chip?
?

Rich44. You and Yours interviewed a Mary Adkins whose husbands joint account debit card was skimmed in the UK. The first they knew about it was when Mr Adkins tried to use his Switch card and the shopkeeper told him to contact his bank. The banks fraud dept asked the Adkins if they'd been in Paris, well no. So they were told to get a bank statement and check their account. In 4 hours in Paris at 2 separate ATMs 13 withdrawals had been made to the tune of £1300.

I sent you a private email on how to obtain Chip & Signature cards.

[demon_x_slash]

Hi,

Would someone mind posting the information on how to get a Chip and Sig card on the forum, please? This has been on my mind for quite some time, but the only information I can find from my bank (FL-abbey) is that they will only give Chip and Sig cards to the disabled, those with poor vision or memory loss, etc. Is this right? Can anyone ask for a Chip and Sig as an alternative to PIN? And what sort of reception does a Chip and Sig card get at a retailer? I'm a cashier, and I'm the only one of my colleagues who has even heard of the Sig scheme.

Regards.

[JimmyTheOne]

Put it in writing saying you have difficulty with PINs and you want a Chip & Signature card. Simple as that. If you get a call asking you why, say it's for personal reasons and leave it at that.

This is from the Chip & PIN website:

[Gisted] If you have difficulty with PINs

"You will not be required to provide medical evidence to support your request."

While your at it, ask your card issuer why they provided no information about chip & Signature cards. After all the Banking Code says if they provide a product or service they are supposed to tell their customers about that product or service and how it works.


Good luck.

[JimmyTheOne]

Michael Gilbert is convinced that around £400 has been stolen from his Barclays current account in three separate transactions, the third of which sent him into the red. Barclays is adamant that, as his correct Pin and card were used each time

Click here for story

[JimmyTheOne]

Research from banking industry body Apacs, found that cash machine fraud during the first three months of 2006 totalled £21.4m - an increase of 54 per cent compared to 2005 figures.

Sainsbury's spending £3.5M on ATM Security.

PINs with Credit Cards - Crazy here' more Proof:

Despair Over Credit Card Fraud (Click onto video).