Cooling off Period?

[Mikesx13]

Hi guys,

I recently went to check out a martial arts school and subsequently signed a 12 month credit agreement to join them. With this I pay £45 a month to have unlimited classes a 'free' suit, license, gradings and insurance.

A couple of days after signing this I read it properly and also investigated the club/trainer a bit more and decided I really didn't want anything to do with it.

I phoned the guy up and emailed him to explain my reasons and he's saying that yes I can cancel but they will still charge me one month (£45) plus £35 for the 'free' suit that they gave me.

I have literally attended one 45 minute class and let them know straight away that I was cancelling so I don't think it's fair for them to charge me £80 for this.

I have worn the suit once and am perfectly happy to return it, I realise that they might not be happy that they're out of pocket for the suit but it was definately advertised as a free suit with no disclaimers.

When I filled out the credit agreement I also completed a direct debit form, are they whithin their rights to take the money from me as I thought there was a 14 day cooling off period with any credit agreement?

Any help appreciated

[poppynurse]

It's not a credit agreement as they are not lending you anything and I don't think there's any cooling off period - the onus is on you to read before you sign. I expect the 'free suit' was conditional on signing up for 12 months (did it mention the suit in the contract?).

[Mikesx13]

Originally Posted by poppynurse

It's not a credit agreement as they are not lending you anything and I don't think there's any cooling off period - the onus is on you to read before you sign. I expect the 'free suit' was conditional on signing up for 12 months (did it mention the suit in the contract?).

Yep unfortunately it is a credit agreement hence why i'm not happy to have it.

It is provided by bmac, an 'OFT licenced credit broker' with the 'credit amount' being £540 which I pay off at £45/month.

It bears all the same hallmarks of the rest of the nasty credit agreements you get such as a £15 penalty plus admin charge for a missed payment as well as the threat of county court action for non payment.

There is a big banner at the top saying that 'The Credit Consumer Act 1974 covers this agreement' as well.

Reading further into it the uniform is covered by the following disclaimers:

1. Upon the acceptance of membership by a 'new' and previously unregistered applicant. Any equipment provided FREE through a package deal SHALL REMAIN the property of the B.M.A.C until such time as a renewal of membership has been recieved, processed and approved against which the full costs shall be payable.

2. All equipment MUST be maintained in a clean and serviceable condition and must NOT be disposed of in anyway without consent of the B.M.A.C.

3. Equipment MUST be returned to the B.M.A.C. together with any or all outstanding payments due under this agreement, at any time that this membership agreement is settled or terminated.

All thats saying to my eyes is that once i've paid a full yearI get to keep the suit but until then it is their property which is fine and dandy with me!

[Mikesx13]

I think i'm screwed because under the consumer credit act the cooling off period does not apply if the credit agreement was signed at their premises which it was

I can't believe i've been stupid enough to sign a twelve month credit agreement to pay them £45 a month which I now can't get out of as there's no way i'm going to go back and use the school now i've found out a little more about it

[gyzmo]

Unfortunate, and I'm not having a go here or a "neh neh" moment, but this really does emphasise the best form of consumer protection being education (and I keep saying this until I am blue in the face but no-one ever listens...).
ALWAYS make sure you know what you are getting. Do some research, never sign there and then, and get anything said to you in writing (by someone authorised to say such things).

[dw190]

Check the agreement is set out as described in the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Inparticular the signiture boxes. If the wording is not exactly printed within the boxes it would be unenforcable.

[Mikesx13]

Originally Posted by gyzmo

Unfortunate, and I'm not having a go here or a "neh neh" moment, but this really does emphasise the best form of consumer protection being education (and I keep saying this until I am blue in the face but no-one ever listens...).
ALWAYS make sure you know what you are getting. Do some research, never sign there and then, and get anything said to you in writing (by someone authorised to say such things).

I know I feel like a complete idiot. It's quite unusual for me to get caught out by something like this but I think the fact that I had just come out of an intensive training/introduction session and the guy was talking to me about martial arts (something I get quite caught up in) whilst his wife was getting me to sign this form meant I didn't pay it enough heed, also at no time did she say 'this is a credit agreement, are you happy to sign it?'

I've also never heard of or seen a martial arts school being run in this way so wasn't expecting it!

I am extremely p*ssed off that they run it this way because it can often take a good few weeks of training with a particular club before you decide whether you want to join them long term or not.

Overall I can see this costing me £540 for absolutely nothing which is a massive amount of money for me to lose

Actually perhaps it's some twisted form of karma as i've just recieved back £500 odd in bank charges!

[poppynurse]

Are they a member of a governing body? My lads have been involved in various martial arts and clubs and we've never had a credit agreement, just paid weekly or monthly by DD (hence my earlier post) sounds like sharp practice to me

[Mikesx13]

Originally Posted by poppynurse

Are they a member of a governing body? My lads have been involved in various martial arts and clubs and we've never had a credit agreement, just paid weekly or monthly by DD (hence my earlier post) sounds like sharp practice to me

Well this is part of the problem, I thought they were members of the ITF which I would have been happy with but when I investigated further and tried to find some officially recognised governing body it turns out they are governed by some organisation which has been made up by the guy that runs this school and also it appears that his 8th dan black belt was awarded by this governing body i.e. him!!

Master Davies Black Belt Schools , Freephone 0800 073 0297

Also he carries out gradings and awards belts himself which essentially means they mean nothing to the rest of the Tae Kwon Do world and are not transferable to other clubs or useable in competitions

[Mikesx13]

Originally Posted by dw190

Check the agreement is set out as described in the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Inparticular the signiture boxes. If the wording is not exactly printed within the boxes it would be unenforcable.

I'm tempted to take the form to the Citizens Advice Bureau or I might pay a solicitor to look over it as i'm willing to do everything whithin my means to get out of this.

[Zamzara]

Originally Posted by Mikesx13

Overall I can see this costing me £540 for absolutely nothing which is a massive amount of money for me to lose

What happened to only paying one month + £35? That didn't sound as bad.

[Mikesx13]

Originally Posted by Zamzara

What happened to only paying one month + £35? That didn't sound as bad.

He said on the phone that I would be able to do that and i've been trying to get him to confirm by email since. He hasn't replied although i've recieved unrelated emails from him so I would say that he's definately got the messages.

I just have a funny feeling that it's not going to pan out that way

[poppynurse]

Have you thought about ringing trading standards seeing if they can help?

[ScarletPimpernel]

Do BMAC have an address and/or company registration number - it should be on their paperwork? I think they may be worth looking at in more detail.

I wonder what Dr Davies' doctorate is in, and where it's from.

[Mikesx13]

Sorry, been offline for a few days.

I went up to chat to the guy a few days ago and voiced my concerns over the club and the agreement.

He stated that as long as I have reasonable grounds for cancelling (i.e. moving away) then he doesn't have a problem with that and it doesn't incur any charges.

I've decided to cut my losses and use the school for a few months to get my money's worth i.e. if I quit now it would cost me £80 for nothing or I could pay £90 over two months and have two months training.

I also found out that they are in some way affiliated with WTF who are a bona-fida governing body although I think they just follow a similar syllabus rather than being fully affiliated and accredited.

I also got advice from a well known and trusted guy who runs his own Tae Kwon Do school on this particular guy/school in Bristol and he said that the instructor really knows his stuff and is good at what he does but the school and the way it's run is a bit dodgy.

The impression I now get is that the instructor is a time served martial artist who is a fully qualified and competent instructor who is trying to go it on his own but is taking a slightly shady approach.

So all in all some good and bad things learnt mainly that I should take anything away with me before signing to have a good read at home!

Edit: I don't want to jump to conclusions but I wouldn't be surprised if BMAC and the doctorate are mere fantasies!