Disability discrimination?

[GlasweJen]

I was at a nightclub tonight and managed to get obtain an injury to my shoulder while on the stairs, basically I slipped on a spillage and almost took a tumble but managed to grab a hand rail but in doing so hurt my shoulder. At the time the manageress seemed nice enough and I took the time she used examining my shoulder to explain about my medical condition and my tendancy to collapse.

Later in the evening (about 2.58 am) I felt ill and found myself unconcious on the floor, by the time help arrived the lights were up (0300) and the club was clearing. My friends all tried to explain that I needed time to recover and I should be kept still but the manageress insisted I sit up and forced me into an upright position, she then tried to force my flatmate away saying that he had to leave (this was at roughly 0305) and I would be left alone with a team of (male) stewards while she spoke to him. I was disorientated as a result of the episode and couldn't answer in depth medical questions she was asking for myself but she wouldn't allow my flatmate to answer for me nor would she read the outline of my illness on my medic alert card. She accused me of taking drugs to the stewards (thankfully I used to work with one of them and he knew this wasn't the case), she also shouted at me, telling me to just stand up which is impossible to do in that state and told my flatmate to f**k off out her club.

I was taken into a room and a different door steward yelled at me for not disclosing information before I collapsed but I did - to the manageress.

I want to write a letter of complaint citing the disability discrimination act and the licensing (scotland) act that stipulates 15 minutes drinking up time i.e i could have had 15 minutes to recover but I looked around and as the club is owned by a private company there is no head office to write to, who else can I make my complaint to? If the manageress is also the owner then my letter would be a complete waste of time.

[buzby]

The 'drinking up' time is discretionary and provides a buffer zone in which the licensee is safe from any accusations of flouting the terms of their licence.

The Disability Act (the last time I read it) was to address equalities of access and treatment of customers, and not relevant to the treatment of those suffering illness whilst on the premises. It would seem there are other issues in play that concern the club owner. As for not disclosing information about an illness - that's your business. As for moving it forward to a formal complaint, I really don't see this working - I'd vote with my feet and take my custom elsewhere.

[robbond55]

Hi there.
From what I understand the DDA as amended December 2005 should be looking at all areas to address inequalities of treatment - the fact that you were willing to leave the premesis as anyone else but was unable to due to a prior diagnosed condition which you tried to explain to the owner but was ignored says to me that a "reasonable adjustment", in this case to their policies, was not forthcoming.
I am no expert but I would advise you to call the Disability Rights Commission on this - they can be contacted on their helpline on 08457 622633 and is a completely free service.
Let us know how you get on anyway!

[GlasweJen]

I called the disability rights people and they told me to write a letter so this is what i'm sending tomorrow.

Dear Sir/Madam,
I am writing in regard to an incident which occurred in your nightclub on Tuesday 17th July into early Wednesday 18th July. Myself and a group of colleagues arrived at your nightclub to celebrate the leaving of a member of staff, upon arrival I mentioned to a cashier that I had a medical condition and asked if the company require a copy of my medic alert card, she told me they didn’t and she would inform the stewards that there was a disabled person in the building.

Later in the night I slipped on the stairs and damaged my shoulder when I grabbed for the handrail, I was given an ice pack by the manageress on duty and again I mentioned my disability.

At 3am when the lights in the club came up I suffered a vasovagal episode which I informed the establishment could happen. Instead of being offered first aid my party were forced out of the building, my carer was told by the manageress to “get the *** out” and members of staff tried to force me to my feet. A member of staff took my medic alert card and started shouting abuse at me because I have a nut allergy (which is in no way connected to my disability). My carer explained that there were serious medical implications to moving me when I was still recovering from syncope; he tried to brief the manageress on duty on my medical condition (Neurocardiogenic Vasovagal Syncope) but she merely persisted in her attempts to have him removed from the club. I was accused of being a drug addict and a drunk despite being reasonably sober and engaging in meaningful conversation with a member of staff who I used to work with only minutes prior to my episode. I was humiliated in front of other patrons who were finishing their drinks using the 15 minute buffer time specified by the Licensing (Scotland) Act 1974 revised 2003.

I was then removed while still vulnerable and disorientated to a room with 2 male members of stewarding staff while one steward tried to check me over and administer first aid the other shouted and accused me of withholding information from the night club, he even rubbished my claim that I had spoken to the manageress earlier in the night despite having filed an accident report form.

My complaints

1. That despite disclosing my disability I was humiliated and made a target of when I required medical assistance.

2. I was pulled to my feet without being asked if I had procured any injuries while falling.

3. I was bombarded with shouting members of staff and suffered emotional and verbal abuse while disorientated.

4. I was not offered first aid from a female member of staff nor was I offered the protection from a female steward as there were none.

5. The management kept trying to remove my carer contrary to guidelines on dealing with vulnerable adults.

6. The management, instead of taking advice from my carer who is trained in dealing with my medical condition, hurled verbal and emotional abuse at him.

7. I was accused of with holding information that the Disability Discrimination Act states may be with held by myself under any circumstances at my own discretion when in fact I had already spoken to 2 different members of staff.

8. My colleagues, despite spending a lot of money in the club that night, were forced out of the nightclub without any reassurance that I would be ok and when under the Licensing (Scotland) Act 1974 they could have stayed a further 15 minutes and finished up drinking.

9. When one member of staff asked if I required an ambulance the manageress with held a 999 call from me because the club would be fined for calling out paramedics, fortunately my carer was able to prevent the episode from getting worse.

10. A staff member tried to force water and ice cubes down my throat when I was semi-conscious. This caused me to choke briefly but they insisted I keep drinking.

11. I was moved when unconscious which causes complications to my condition and is against guidelines issued by medics. It is also contrary to first aid training given by both the Red Cross and the St Andrew’s services.

I would like the club to investigate the incident and update me on whatever measures they have put in place to prevent people with similar disabilities to me having such a horrendous experience when out drinking with friends. I would also like to see copies of first aid certificates or other evidence to prove that the stewards and the manageress involved in treating me on the night were first aid trained by an approved company. I would also like to see evidence of either the door stewards’ registration with Edinburgh City Council or their completion of a Security Industry Authority approved course as is the law in Edinburgh.

I would like a reply in writing to my home address within 28 days of receipt of this letter or I shall make a formal complaint to the licensing division of Edinburgh City Council.

Yours faithfully
Jen

[robbond55]

Well done! That is a fantastic letter! I would make sure that it sent recorded delivery just so there is no denying that it was ever received.
Also, I presume that you have been given a reference from the DRC - if not make sure that you get one.
I would also send a copy of the letter to the local media and state that you have done so in your letter.
Unfortunately, whilst we have rightly made a differnce regarding racist and homophobic attitudes I think it is right that people take a stand especially as the majority of the population seems to perceive someone with a disability as someone in a wheelchair, or with stick, or missing a limb or somthing other blatantly physical.
Best of luck anyway!

[StormWarrior]

AFAIA, Vasovagal Syncope, also know as the common faint, is not really a 'disability' unless accompanied by other factors. In fact to quote the LONDON CARDIAC INSTITUTE ...

Vasovagal syncope is not a serious or life threatening condition, but in effect an abnormal reflex

[GlasweJen]

well the government pay me disability living allowance (middle care, lower mobility) and i've never had my claim questioned, i recieve disabled students allowance and have a carer (read above letter), i also fall into a category to claim working tax credits on the grounds of syncope alone, i fit the description in the disability discrimination act in that i have a long term medical condition that severely adversely affects my quality of living and i'm on the list to have either a cardiac pacemaker or an implantable defibrilator but my cardiologists can't work out which one would benefit me most.

Stormwarrior, try living with collapsing up to 5 times a day completely without warning, having to take beta blockers and an unlicenced (but perfectly legal) drug just to be able to get out of bed and have a shower without passing out and then tell me i'm not disabled.

[OrangePrimate]

Sorry StormWarrior, have to disagree with you there! This condition would definately be defined as a Disability.

I know you say 'unless accompanied by other factors', but the diagnosis of that condition speaks for itself.

Disability Discrimination Act 1995 (c.50)
1.—(1) Subject to the provisions of Schedule 1,
a person has a disability for the purposes of this Act
if he has a physical or mental impairment which has a
substantial and long-term adverse effect on his ability
to carry out normal day-to-day activities.


And from the Cardiovascular Care Group

"Individuals that are prone to neurocardiogenic syncope
manifest a spectrum of symptoms ranging from fatigue,
vague lightheadedness, recurrent dizziness, near fainting,
palpitations, nausea, unexplained sweating, joint or muscle aches,
to the most dramatic "the faint". Some people may only have one or
more of these symptoms but never progress to fainting.
Prolonged fatigue after a modest amount of physical activity is
occasionally seen. This post-exertional fatigue can last 24-72 hours,
and interferes with many daily activities."

This condition is the inturuption of the supply of blood to the Brain or the Heart, and the treatments/care for it are the total opposite of how jenschnifer was treated in that club! it could have had dire consequences.

Good luck with your letter jenschnifer, lets hope the staff in that club are given a harsh boot up the backside and think twice before treating someone like that again!

[GlasweJen]

thanks orangeprimate.

i hate when people with no knowledge of my condition make out i'm some sort of hypochondriac without getting their facts straight first, i've had enough of that from the doctors! There's no point quoting the LONDON CARDIAC INSTITUTION (what's with all the caps btw?) without backing it up, at cardiac clinic in Glasgow i'm treated alongside only 4 other NCS sufferers, not because it's rare but because it's rare to have in the long term (i'm on at least 7 years). And even if i'd just fainted, my experience from working in a nightclub is someone faints you call a doctor or an ambulance because (especially if it's a girl) anything can happen and someone may have wanted her to pass out.

it's a very outdated view to think that all disabled people have wheelchairs or white sticks and sit about doing not much all day, i work and i study and it's narrow minded people like stormwarrior who make life difficult for people like me.

readup on syncope on the STARS webpage, written by the mother of a sufferer and endorsed by medical professionals from across the UK
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[robbond55]

Fully agree with you. I have relapsing-remitting multiple sclerosis and they are lots of myths about. First of all whenever you see in the media someone with MS they are always portrayed as always in a wheelchair or rapidly deteriorating - thank God that happens to only around ten per cent of people with MS. You look at me and I walk 2 miles to work everyday and back and there is no way yoiu could tell that there is any disability but the flip side is there are bad days as well. My point is that there are what are called invisible disabilities which affect many, many people and until you are suffering from the symptoms no one could ever tell you had a condition.

[OrangePrimate]

Hi jenschnifer
no need for thanks (but they welcome anyway )

Its just a shame that you have to defend and explain yourself in this way, as if the experience you had in that club (and i assume the attitudes you have to put up with daily) are not bad enough.

I notice StormWarrior only quoted the miniscule section about the faint, neglecting to mention that without the 'faint' being the end product of the medical condition and in some cases a necessary one as it is that very 'faint' that allows the body to recover!

I only know about this condition due to being an employee rep in my work place, and having to do some intensive research on this because a collegue was being threatened with dismissal because they refused to accept she had a disability, and refused to make any reasonable adjustments for her.
Needless to say, they have been educated!

Having seen the effects of this condition first hand, and its effects, i have no idea how you manage to fit so much in to your days, with study and work ect!!
I wish you the very best, and hope you get a massive apology from the management of that club (with a few free rounds thrown in )
OP

[GlasweJen]

The royal mail have sent my letter back to the delivery centre as no one was there to get it when they tried to deliver, what can I do about this? I realise she'll have time to go pick it up but if she doesn't bother then do i just send it again or what?

[robbond55]

A tough one as a lot of these managers are only there evenings/night-times. I was wondering if you could go and deliver it by hand, along with a witness who could also photograph you delivering ther letter? I know it seems a long-winded wasy but at least it would prove that the letter was delivered.

[GlasweJen]

according to Royal Mail they would have put a card through the door so that it could be collected from the sorting office so surely it's her responsibility to go and pick it up?

[robbond55]

Good point, as long as she has the decency to bother to go and pick it up. One bonus is she will not know what the letter is about until she picks it up. Failing that, is the nightclub part of a chain and she is just the manager of that particular venue? If you have no joy via the route of issuing a letter to her then perhaps a strongley worded letter to the head office?

[GlasweJen]

no, it's an independant club so i don't know where to go from here