Renault Espace 2.2dCi Major Engine Problem

[devilcouple69]

Hi.

I'm after some advice. I have a 05 plate Renault Espace 2.2dCi Initiale.

Its just over its warranty by a couple of months and has only done 56k miles. I had it serviced as per schedule 10 days ago at a Nationwide Autocentre, prior to this has been serviced at Renault Dealer.

I have had no problems with the car other than faulty tyre pressure sensors.

I was driving the car back from Nottingham when the was a rattling sound coming from the front of the car, it sounded as if the exhaust had split or a hole in it. A couple of minutes later a warning message on the dash came up "Low oil pressure" then the oil light came on, as i pull off the road into a layby, the STOP light came on and lost all power to the engine.

When the RAC arrived the told me the conrod had gone through the the Engine. The car has now been at the Renault Garage for the past couple of days.

They're not sure what has caused the problem, as the engine had oil in it, it hadn't overheated or had been driven hard. They say it will cost £7250 for new engine. They're also saying that because the last service wasn't by a dealer Renault won't accept any liability.

Has anyone experienced a similar problem or had any dealing with Renault customer service. A diesel engine that's only done 56k miles shouldn't do this.

Help please as there's no way i can afford £7250.

Thanks

Simon

[GMIW]

Sorry to hear this, this is very typical of renault. Few questions:

How far out of the warranty period are you?

Was the last 'non dealer' service in or outside of the warranty period?

If it was inside the warranty period was OE parts used and was it serviced according to renault standards

If the the car was serviced inside the warranty period and you can prove that it was serviced by 'a competent person' i.e a vat registered garage using OE parts then you can try arguing you're covered under block exemption.

You'll have to fight them every step of the way and argue the toss, outside of that you'll have to hope for some goodwill or a contribution for a new engine.

I had this with Audi on an A6 V6TDi180 and it also threw a conrod out at42,000 miles and two months outside of warranty. I threatened legal action as the fault would of been inherent and the last service (again by a non franchised dealer) wouldn't of caused the failure.

You may be able to argue that in your case too. Sounds silly, but you may be able to pressure your insurance too, or contact your home insurer and tell them you want to use the liability insurance most insurers offer tosue renault, they'll also pressure renault cos they'll not want the bill either.

[devilcouple69]

Thanks for the reply.

The car is only a couple of months outside of the warranty, although still inside the 60,000 miles. The service was carried outside of the warranty period and was carried out by Nationwide Autocentre's on there Major Service. See http://www.nationwideautocentres.co....e_schedule.pdf

They also claim on there website the following:
10 reasons to use Nationwide

Nationwide Autocentres are the leading UK MOT and car servicing specialist. See the top 10 reasons for choosing to service your car with us!

1. AA audited service centres
2. Huge savings on dealer prices
3. Honest and accurate advice
4. All parts are guaranteed for a minimum 12 months or 12,000 miles (whichever is sooner)
5. Price Promise - we won’t be beaten
6. Highly experienced, qualified technicians
7. Use of the latest technology and equipment
8. Having your car serviced with us will not invalidate your warranty
9. We service all makes and models of cars
10. Over 200 centres nationwide

See point 8 of there top 10. Surely this means that the service was carried to the same as renault standards.

I have spoken with the Renault Garage and they've told me that they are unable to really acertain whats caused the failure and without completely stripping the engine, which they don't want to do. They have told me that the turbo on the engine has failed also.

They have told me that they have spoken to Renault Customer Services and they are willing to contribute to the repair and have initially quoted a 20% contribution, but they are yet to discuss it with me direct. The Renault dealer has told me to tell them it was caused by failure of the Turbo.

I had a look at my fully comprehensive vehicle insurance policy with MoreThan and it doesn't cover vehicle repair due to mechanical or electrical failure.

I have bought the car through my company, but not sure if company insurance would have any effect.

The garage also said that they have NEVER seen this kind of failure in an engine with so few miles on.

Surely this indicates a fault with either the conrod itself or the turbo, although i'm not 100% sure turbo failure would necessarily cause such a catastrophic result. Either way both parts should last longer than 56,000 miles.

So not sure what next step will be. 20% is definitely insulting this rate will not be getting a renault again.

[MrShed]

I would be tempted to quote SOGA at them, as 3 years(just over) is not a reasonable period of time for durability and fitness for purpose for such a major repair to occur. A conrod is not a common fault, and should not occur in this timescale.

[devilcouple69]

Whats SOGA?

[MrShed]

Sale Of Goods Act

[patdavies]

I presume that there was some oil in the sump?

The rattling sounds like bearings going (or gone!) before they seized and it threw a conrod.

If there was no oil, how soon after the service was this? It could be that the oil filter or sump plug wasn't fully tightened.

[devilcouple69]

The oil level was fine, it was only change 10 days prior and the oil level check when you start the car said it was ok aswell. There was plenty of oil left in the engine even after there was a big hole in it.

The first thing the guy from the RAC did was check the oil level on the dipstick and it was showing a good level even after the incident.

The Renault garage can't find any problem that may have caused the conrod to go, other than the turbo has also blown.

[devilcouple69]

Latest Update

I have finally had a call from Renault Customers Services. They asked me a few questions about why i bought a Renault & what happened prior to the incident.

They are telling me that the cause of the problem as far as they are concerned was catastrophic turbo failure which sucked the oil from the engine causing the conrod failure.

They also asked me what i expected from them with regards to a contribution from them.

I've had a look on a few forums and there is one on the Parker's website which is a very long thread on fault with the turbo on the dCi engine. Has anyone else had this problem.

I'm not holding out for much assistance, been two days since they've called me.

[MrShed]

What did you say you expected? I personally would have said you expected FULL contribution from them.

[devilcouple69]

I did say full contribution considering it had only done 56,000 miles and there we're contributing factors.

[MARTIN3030]

have a look here too

http://www.renaultforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=50660&hi ghlight=dci+turbo

[devilcouple69]

Renault Customer services have offered to pay 50% towards repair, but made it clear that we're not claiming any liability for the failure of the turbo which caused the damage.

[vanboy]

"They are telling me that the cause of the problem as far as they are concerned was catastrophic turbo failure which sucked the oil from the engine causing the conrod failure."

Having run many turbo diesel vans in the past and having this happen twice,my understanding of this kind of problem is that the turbo sucks up the oil from the engine and actually runs the engine on your oil and will keep going (you can't turn it off by the ignition!) until it has run the engine dry of oil.I'm no mechanic but surely if the the turbo failed and did this it would have emptied the engine of oil?.
I'd query this explanation with a qualified motor engineer as i reckon they're clutching at straws!.
PS - I own 2 Renaults at the moment,one is a 2003 van that my mechanic can't get the heater plugs out of because the bolts that hold them in have rusted away due to bad design and a 2002 Diesel Laguna that has just begun to lose water.....i can feel a change of manufacturer coming.

[sickovit]

Turbo failure on the 2.2dci espace is very very common and Renault know it.

We had 2 last year both with less than 60,000miles on them and the best deal renault offered was 50% towards the bill . The keycards are also a very big problem.

They are by far the worst vehicle for reliability.

I suspect the turbo broke up and deposited metal into the intake which would inturn go into the top of the engine thus causing catastrophic top end seizure and jamming the intake valves, the piston would then not make fullstroke and the conrod would have to keep moving and the only place it could go is outward and off the piston.

Tell Renault to strip the engine and find what caused the conrod to come through, you,ll find it was turbo failure , which means THEY are liable as the turbo should still be warrantied.

If you need other owners to make a statement advocating they had the exact same fault i can definately supply a number for 1 ex owner.

[sickovit]

This may help, click link below.

Parker's forum - Renault dCi Turbo Problems. Read TOPIC l First!

[small paul]

As a mechanic in a non-franchised garage I have experienced a few problems with oil pressure relief valves in recent Renault turbo diesel engines. This causes insufficient oil flow to all parts of the engine and turbo. Usually the turbo is first to give up and the problem is remedied before engine damage occurs. However if you were cruising on the motorway you may not have noticed the turbo fail and have suffered the engine failure as well. Believe me Renault are only too aware of this fault and I'm quite sure would have done a recall were it not for the fact that the part seems to last just beyond the warranty. I know of several mechanics in similar positions to myself who will be only too willing to back up your claim that this is a known fault and is caused by an inherent fault. I doubt very much that an improperly closed valve would cause the problem as you suggest as in every engine I have ever worked on the valves are softer than conrods. I.e. the valve would bend rather than the conrod break. In very few engines you may shatter a piston

[commaman2]

I have had this happen to a Scenic I sold last year. The engine runs on and on, sucking all the oil up and running on that. You switch the ignition off and it keeps going until it blows!! Some people try and stall by putting in gear and releasing the clutch only to detonate the clutch/flywheel as well...........

I have a very very good contact at my local Renault garage and he tells me it is a massive problem on 1.9 and 2.2 DCi's. Renault are aware but don't really want to help.

[the winkler 72]

In J D Powers 2008 survey the frenchies came =22, and 24 out of 28!!!
even Hyundai were higher.

www.whatcar.com/NonCar/7588125111.jpg

Still people seem to buy them by the shed full, why is this???

[Desperate Daniella]

Hi devilcouple69,

Have you got anywhere yet? Or have they settled? If not, I'll tell you what I did with my auto gearbox which packed up, although the Renault contact may not be still there. In brief though my warranty had run out, the muppets at Customer Care don't know anything about the Sale of Goods Act, and if they have said they will pay something, they actually know there is a problem. They offered 50% but ended up paying the lot.

DD