Car serviced by Audi last week now I have a suspected Head gasket failure! PLEASE HELP

[raydetinu]

I would take it back to the dealer that sold it to you and get him to sort it out with the warranty company if necessary; obviously something faulty somewhere, should be covered under SOGA?

[S.O.L]

Originally Posted by patdavies

Hang on a minute. |antifreeze change is not on the list that you gave us earlier in the thread.

Are you sure this was done (separately?)?

That is key, because if the system was drained and then refilled incorrectly, an airlock could have formed leading directly to overheating and head gasket failure.

it says they changed Antifreeze on the receipt and I checked all levels before leaving the Dealership to make sure. But I am worried that it might not have been changed correctly hence my problem. Head gaskets don't tend to just fail on cars like this.....there is usually a reason!

[callumsgran]

Originally Posted by Bookworm

Thank you, I have been scratching my head over that one too.

Call me cynical, but if it exonerates them from any wrongdoing, I would have thought the Audi garage would only be too happy to confirm to the warranty people that the fault could not have been detected when they did the servicing and therefore it couldn't possibly have been something that was pre-existing the taking of the insurance...

My son is a mechanic and he said there is no advance warning signs when a head gasket goes, it just goes!!!
The milkiness only shows once its gone, so there should be no problem claiming on the warranty as it could not have been predicted

[MrShed]

CG - dead correct. The issue is however that there is almost always an underlying cause of the blown gasket. This underlying cause COULD have been prevented, depending what it was. Indeed, this cause may have even been caused by the garage.

My thought is that it is unlikely to have been caused by the garage, even if the coolant was changed, as if this were the case I would have thought that the head gasket would have gone much sooner than 100 miles.

Mine(albeit was a Citroen, which are the worst offenders with head gaskets) blew within 5 miles of driving with the underlying fault.

[patdavies]

Originally Posted by MrShed

CG - dead correct. The issue is however that there is almost always an underlying cause of the blown gasket. This underlying cause COULD have been prevented, depending what it was. Indeed, this cause may have even been caused by the garage.

My thought is that it is unlikely to have been caused by the garage, even if the coolant was changed, as if this were the case I would have thought that the head gasket would have gone much sooner than 100 miles.

Mine(albeit was a Citroen, which are the worst offenders with head gaskets) blew within 5 miles of driving with the underlying fault.

Whilst not disputing what happened in your case, a minor gasket 'blow' into one cylinder could have taken that distance to consume the water - even if it 'blew' in the first few minutes do to an airlock in the cooling system and got steadily worse. It may not even have been down on power (as water injection was once a technique for increasing power output). Audis have a pretty large coolant reservoir as I recall.

BTW, I don't think Citroen are the worst offenders. Austin-Rover K-series engines (as used in MGF) used to blow head gaskets regularly, even if looked at the wrong way!

[patdavies]

Originally Posted by S.O.L

It took the RAC guy that turned up less than 5 minutes to diagnose head gasket failure. The first thing he said to me was "have you got 3 grand"

RAC guy is talking nonsense. This doesn't need a new engine. Head off, clean up, check and maybe skim head, replace with new gasket. Even as Audi labour rates, it shouldn't cost anything like £3K. However, the longer it is left with water(vapour) in the bores, the more likely there will be damage to the cylinder walls via rusting

[MrShed]

True - rover enginers are at least on a par with Citroen

[S.O.L]

Update:

Spoke to Audi Dealer in Stafford that serviced my car and explained what they guy from the RAc said. The guy I spoke to in the Service department advised me that the car would need to have a pressure test to diagnose if it is indeed the head gasket as suspected. Given that I am in London and they are in Stafford, he is going to speak to his manager and see if they can get this done at a dealership closer to me.

I am waiting for them to call me back but am not at all optimistic about what they can do for me!

[jungle vip]

Hi there, just reading your posts, firstly just a quick explanation what the headgasket does, in the top of the engine there are various holes which carry water and oil, these have to be kept apart from the high pressure from the cylinders when the engine fires, so a large seal with holes is placed between the top and middle of the engine, as your car has just done 16k it unlikely to have failed with age, nor does it fail with running low on coolant, it fails due to overheating or badly built engine which the head (top of the engine ) is slightly warped or has not been tightened down correctly. This has nothing to do with Audi servicing the car as it cannot be checked in a service, the only time they might be responsable is, if it overheated with them on a test drive, secondly the process replacing it is easy and nothing like the 5k you were quoted, the process is, removal of the cylinder head, strip the cylinder head down enough to get it re-skimmed, ( re-surfaced so the base is flat ) re assembled with new headgasket, This can be done by any reputable garage not neccesarly a audi dealer as their labour charges can be much higher, estemate £500 tops, ask around for quotes, remember to include oil and coolant. Regards.

[riget]

Originally Posted by jungle vip

Hi there, just reading your posts, firstly just a quick explanation what the headgasket does, in the top of the engine there are various holes which carry water and oil, these have to be kept apart from the high pressure from the cylinders when the engine fires, so a large seal with holes is placed between the top and middle of the engine, as your car has just done 16k it unlikely to have failed with age, nor does it fail with running low on coolant, it fails due to overheating or badly built engine which the head (top of the engine ) is slightly warped or has not been tightened down correctly. This has nothing to do with Audi servicing the car as it cannot be checked in a service, the only time they might be responsable is, if it overheated with them on a test drive, secondly the process replacing it is easy and nothing like the 5k you were quoted, the process is, removal of the cylinder head, strip the cylinder head down enough to get it re-skimmed, ( re-surfaced so the base is flat ) re assembled with new headgasket, This can be done by any reputable garage not neccesarly a audi dealer as their labour charges can be much higher, estemate £500 tops, ask around for quotes, remember to include oil and coolant. Regards.

The head gasket most certainly can go by running low on coolant.
£500 tops, is a bit light, we don't even know what engine this has, could be a v6, and I can't see anybody rebuilding the top end for £500.

S.O.L. what engine is it?

[S.O.L]

Originally Posted by jungle vip

Hi there, just reading your posts, firstly just a quick explanation what the headgasket does, in the top of the engine there are various holes which carry water and oil, these have to be kept apart from the high pressure from the cylinders when the engine fires, so a large seal with holes is placed between the top and middle of the engine, as your car has just done 16k it unlikely to have failed with age, nor does it fail with running low on coolant, it fails due to overheating or badly built engine which the head (top of the engine ) is slightly warped or has not been tightened down correctly. This has nothing to do with Audi servicing the car as it cannot be checked in a service, the only time they might be responsable is, if it overheated with them on a test drive, secondly the process replacing it is easy and nothing like the 5k you were quoted, the process is, removal of the cylinder head, strip the cylinder head down enough to get it re-skimmed, ( re-surfaced so the base is flat ) re assembled with new headgasket, This can be done by any reputable garage not neccesarly a audi dealer as their labour charges can be much higher, estemate £500 tops, ask around for quotes, remember to include oil and coolant. Regards.

£500 for a V6 Engine? What about the Catalytic converter etc?

So as far as you're concerned, there is no way Audi could have been responsible other than through an overzealous test drive?

Would the check they perform for leaks not have flagged up a problem?

thx

[riget]

sol- just found the a4's up to 2004 had a coolant blower fan module fault, this caused overheating, the dealer should be able to read the fault if it has occered.

[S.O.L]

Originally Posted by riget

sol- just found the a4's up to 2004 had a coolant blower fan module fault, this caused overheating, the dealer should be able to read the fault if it has occered.

thx Riget.......the thing is no warning lights have come on since it was serviced and the coolant temp has gradually rose to 90 and stayed there both times I have driven it since the service. if the blower fan was the culprit then would it not have affected the coolant temp?

There was a full diagnostic check as part of the service......would this not have been picked up by diagnostics?

[riget]

Did the temp go to 90 before the service?
It's not likely to be able to diagnose the error by this forum, but for me the error happened at the service, as you have now said the coolant was changed that seems the likely cause.
The diagnostics check should find if there was an electrical failure, as no error was found at the service, then it's unlikely to be the reason for failure of the gasket.

[S.O.L]

Originally Posted by riget

Did the temp go to 90 before the service?
It's not likely to be able to diagnose the error by this forum, but for me the error happened at the service, as you have now said the coolant was changed that seems the likely cause.
The diagnostics check should find if there was an electrical failure, as no error was found at the service, then it's unlikely to be the reason for failure of the gasket.

Yes. No temp issues before the service....in fact the car ran totally fine. When I picked it up after the service, it felt no different.

I really don't think I can discount the fact that the coolant change by Audi mechanic could have caused this.......

Another thing that was odd was how much pressure there was in the cooler tank when I opened it to top it up.....I had to do it gently as it felt like the cap was going to fly off!

[riget]

I'm not a legal person but I think you should ask audi questions, the fact it's only 4 years old, low mileage with service history, and it happened just after the service.
But I can't check it over the net so you'll have to let them look, it is possible something else happened.

[S.O.L]

Originally Posted by riget

I'm not a legal person but I think you should ask audi questions, the fact it's only 4 years old, low mileage with service history, and it happened just after the service.
But I can't check it over the net so you'll have to let them look, it is possible something else happened.

thx for all your help!

[gwc1000]

There is a remote possibility when performing a coolant change, if done incorrectly, that head gasket failure can occur. Antifreeze has a creeping action and can find a path where plain water cannot. It is essential when replacing coolant into an empty system that neat antifreeze is not added at the start. Due to it's aggressive nature it is possible (albeit rare) that it may creep between the head gasket and block. The correct way is to use plain water first which must be added up to about a quarter of the coolant capacity. Next a mixture of water and antifreeze should be used to fill the system up. This way the effect of the antifreeze is at all times diluted.

[jungle vip]

Originally Posted by riget

The head gasket most certainly can go by running low on coolant.
£500 tops, is a bit light, we don't even know what engine this has, could be a v6, and I can't see anybody rebuilding the top end for £500.

S.O.L. what engine is it?

Have never had a headgasket go yet on a car that has been low on coolant ! I have seen plenty overheat due to being low on coolant, which in return causes headgasket failure ! secondly, the top end shouldnt need rebuilding, just the parts re-fitting that was removed to enable it to be skimmed, Have done loads of v6 engines, head off,re-skimmed and back on within the day...

[MrShed]

Originally Posted by jungle vip

Have never had a headgasket go yet on a car that has been low on coolant ! I have seen plenty overheat due to being low on coolant, which in return causes headgasket failure !

Same difference to be fair.