More used car woes

[lsba02853]

Afternoon all
I think i'm taking the correct course of action with this one but clarification/confirmation would be appreciated.

I bought a 5 year old car on July 26th for £4k. 51K on the clock with full service history & recent MOT. The most recent service had only been performed 200 miles previous.

On August 4th the car developed a clunking sound in a couple of gears and a high pitched whining (spelling) when pulling away in first, but only under load. Up hill start or putting my foot down to get into that gap of oncoming traffic. I phoned the dealer i purchased the car from but by the 6th hadn't had a response so i reported the issue to the warranty company (Warranty supplied by the dealer). Due to work commitments i couldn't get the car to their approved garage until the 18th, but this was within their T&C's printed in their booklet.

Anyhow, long story short, i got a call on Friday 29th, telling me that the warranty company have denied my claim as the problem isn't mechanical failure but wear and tear. Having spoken to the garage, the pinnion & differential bearings in the gearbox have all worn and need to be replaced. As they are worn and not broken, this is what the warranty company are using for the basis of their rejection. I subsequently got in touch with the dealer and advised him of the issues, highlighting that they appeared just over a week after buying the car, and stating that he either gets it fixed or i want my money back.

I'm now pretty sure they car isn't going to be fixed, so I'll be sending a letter under the sale of goods act, rejecting the car and requesting a refund. Now, I did continue to drive the car after the problem was reported because frankly the car was still in a state to be driven and i say that because i didn't know the extent of the damage.

The bill currently stands at £1500 for repairs, even if the work isn't done and i just wanted the car back it's £782 for taking the gearbox out, diagnosing the problem and re-fitting it.

Anyone disagree with my course of action or have any suggestions?

[raydetinu]

Should of taken car to dealer for repair initially, let them sort out if warranty going to pay if not they would have had to pay. Its the dealer you have the contract with.
Is HP involved as they can help?
Suggest you write to dealer and HP company informing them of situation and ask them to pay for repair or you will reject car.
You may be stuck with cost of putting car back together as you authorised it without reference to dealer. you may have trouble now in rejecting the car? if you do you must not drive it!

[lsba02853]

No HP on the car, it was bought for cash, well debit card.
I phoned the dealer but he didn't respond to my calls. Additionally, when i picked up the car he informed me that his mechanic had resigned and from the 29th if i had any problems with the car i was to contact the warranty people directly, so i did.

[gwc1000]

Originally Posted by lsba02853

when i picked up the car he informed me that his mechanic had resigned and from the 29th if i had any problems with the car i was to contact the warranty people directly .

I've heard it all now. So if a car dealer doesn't have his own mechanic the dealer is not responsible for a faulty car? I must remember to try that one myself.

[raydetinu]

You must let dealer sort it, even he has liase with warranty provider, Dealer will be responsible for work required not covered by warranty!

[lsba02853]

Originally Posted by gwc1000

I've heard it all now. So if a car dealer doesn't have his own mechanic the dealer is not responsible for a faulty car? I must remember to try that one myself.

Sorry not sure if thats a dig at me or the dealer!

Originally Posted by raydetinu

You must let dealer sort it, even he has liase with warranty provider, Dealer will be responsible for work required not covered by warranty!

Believe me i'm trying to deal with him, his words so far were:

"I've spoken to trading Standards and they've suggested that in order to keep good customer relations I should make a small contribution towards the costs"

I'm going to speak to him again today and ask him to pay for the repairs, if he refuses it's letter time asking for a refund.

[gwc1000]

Originally Posted by lsba02853

Sorry not sure if thats a dig at me or the dealer!

Hi, Isba. Sorry for any misunderstanding, but it was a dig at the dealer. I myself am a car dealer and I have never heard anything like that before. (Sounds like a get-out clause) Irrespective of any warranty the dealer is liable for sorting your problem.

[lsba02853]

Originally Posted by gwc1000

Hi, Isba. Sorry for any misunderstanding, but it was a dig at the dealer. I myself am a car dealer and I have never heard anything like that before. (Sounds like a get-out clause) Irrespective of any warranty the dealer is liable for sorting your problem.

Cheers, thats what i thought ;o)
After chasing him all Friday, i'm now getting my calls ignored so i've sent a letter rejecting the car and asking for a refund.

[lsba02853]

Small update from this one.
Having sent my rejection letter i've still no contact at all from the dealer. I've now sent a Letter before action, so we'll see if this wakes him up. I'm not holding out much hope though.

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[lsba02853]

Well I got a letter this morning:

Dear.............

In response to you letter dated 12th September 2008 I can confirm the following:

The Customer protect warranty covers you for mechanical breakdown, however the condition of the gearbox after an independent examination is due to wear and tear in line with a vehicle of that age, condition and mileage. An independent engineers report has been obtained and is enclosed for your information.

You signed a declaration giving authority to remove the gearbox and diagnose any fault. This clearly states (and is highlighted) that you have to pay for removal, refit and diagnostic costs. Please see page 5 of the warranty brochure under exclusions section 3F. This clearly states that the cost of diagnosis is not included. The garage manager has confirmed that this was made clear to you prior to any work commencing.

Please contact me in person at your earliest convenience to resolve this matter

Phew.........well basically he's telling me what i already know.
However I really don't think he's getting the point. By law I'm entitled to reject the car under the SOGA and claim a refund, or I'm entitled to seek a repair and I'm asking for a refund. That said I know that if he offers a repair I don't think i can refuse.

The engineers report, stated the following:

......the output pinion support bearing had worn to excess. The rollers were worn and deformed and the bearing inner and outer tracks were also worn and discoloured. The bearing had not collapsed.

There was not evident damage to the transmission casing around the bearing affected.

There was slight chipping to the 4th output gear, this was only slight and the repairers suggest this would be refaced

So according to the dealer, all the above happened in the 500 or so miles after I bought the car from him. I'll respond with a final letter stating that i don't disagree with the diagnosis of the problem, or the fact that the warranty claim was rejected, my point is that he sold me a duff car and thus should swallow his knob and either pay for the repairs or give me a refund.

[raydetinu]

Basically he sold you a car with a faulty gearbox, so he has to fix it or you can still try and reject it, which is the way I would go.
you will have to write again to the dealer again; rejecting it and why under SOGA, car not fit for purpose, broken gear box etc. and give him 7 days to respond or will take him to court for full refund.
Was it a visa debit card as I believe you may be able to do a charge back on those, so suggest you check with your bank.
The trouble is Car dealers have not even read SOGA so suggest you send them a copy and underline the relevant bits. You can download on tinternet.

[Hammy1962]

I've heard of people swallowing their pride, but swallow his knob!! That's a new one on me

There was a video once though................... ...

Hammy

(No offense. Made made laugh)

[lsba02853]

lol, you know what.......I think i saw a still of that and i'm sure it was the guys brother that setup the hidden camera

All aside though he'll get one last letter reminding him of SOGA, with a copy, and then its off to court.........Hi Hooooooooo

[lsba02853]

Originally Posted by raydetinu

Was it a visa debit card as I believe you may be able to do a charge back on those, so suggest you check with your bank.

Ah now this is interesting, i'll check into this, thanks.

With regards to the rest of your post, I've drafted my letter, quoting the individual part of the SOGA that i believe are relevant and putting my case forward based on those.

Forgot my letter today so it'll be going off tomorrow.

[gwc1000]

Originally Posted by raydetinu

The trouble is Car dealers have not even read SOGA

As a car dealer, I would agree with that comment. However, at the same time I would suggest that almost all car dealers know that legally they are liable for the quality of the vehicle, and any subsequent repairs, but, will try to "front it out" with anybody that has a complaint. The way some dealers look at it (and I don't agree with this behaviour) is eventually after being blanked time after time most people give up. So, I would advise persistence.

[lsba02853]

Originally Posted by gwc1000

As a car dealer, I would agree with that comment. However, at the same time I would suggest that almost all car dealers know that legally they are liable for the quality of the vehicle, and any subsequent repairs, but, will try to "front it out" with anybody that has a complaint. The way some dealers look at it (and I don't agree with this behaviour) is eventually after being blanked time after time most people give up. So, I would advise persistence.

Persistence? I'm the most stubborn barsteward this dealer is ever likely to meet. I've even offered to compromise and accept the cost of repairs therefore saving him almost £2500 plus additional court costs.

[gwc1000]

Originally Posted by lsba02853

I'm the most stubborn barsteward this dealer is ever likely to meet.

Oo-er missus! Must make a mental note to never sell you a car!

[lsba02853]

Originally Posted by gwc1000

Oo-er missus! Must make a mental note to never sell you a car!

You'll be fine seeing as you're honest

[lsba02853]

Well, no surprise really but no cheque nor a letter from the dealer so i'm about to use MCOL and submit my claim.
Anyone used it before?
I notice i only have 1080 characters to put in the paticulars of the claim so it needs to be kept factual and to the point.

Additionally, I can't find the car dealership registered as a company on Companies house so i suspect he could be a sole trader, does anyone know if I should use the dealers name in the claim or put XXXX T/A XXXX

All help greatly appreciated.

[Jonnie Reclaim]

Hi, Have you contacted the local Trading Standards dept - sometimes a phone call to the dealer can help. Good luck, Jonnie.

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