Engine rebuild failure - garage deny responsibility

[T_Boss]

Hi,

I'd be interested to know if anyone has any advice for me, or can recommend a solicitor experienced with area of the law.

My story, as brief as I can make it:

In early May 2007 I comissioned a garage to perform a rebuild of a cylinder head, and fit it to an existing, working high-performance engine, before finally fitting it into the car. The work was completed in June, but when I went to collect the car it had been taken for a test-drive and the intercooler had been damaged in the process. I was told this had caused an engine problem and it would be investigated, sorry for the inconvenience etc.

I was informed the car engine had to be rebuilt and then in August I was informed that this had been completed but unfortunately there was a "problem with compression". I pushed for more detail but was never given any. Again, I was told the engine would be rebuild for the third time and this was completed at the end of September 2007.

When I collected the car, I was told that during the final rebuild the engine block had been replaced, as well as the pistons, and a full rebuild had been performed. I was told (but foolishly did not get it in writing) that for this reason, they would honour a 10,000 mile warranty on the engine as if it were their own rebuild. I drove the car home (170 miles), and the next morning went out to put more miles on as I was running it in. After another 20 miles there was a loud tapping followed with a catastrophic 'bang'. There was oil leaking, so at a cost of £170 i had the car returned to the garage.

6 weeks later I recieved a letter from the garage, stating that a conrod had snapped. The cause was unknown, but they would rebuild the car and obviously replace the engine, rebuild to the same specification. They gave a timeline for delivery of the car in January. I said that I would be happy to take the car back, with a full refund on the work they had done, and would take the hit on loss of parts - I just wanted to be done with them. However they insisted that was not an option and they wanted to see the job completed, so I left it with them (I was moving house in Jan 08 and getting married in Feb 08 so in a way, I figured best to have the car out of the way).

In January, I was contacted by the garage to advise the car would not be completed in time. They had opened a case with their insurer who would be inspecting the engine, and were waiting for that to happen. They assured me in writing that regardless of the outcome they would rebuild the engine. I wrote back and said that I would now prefer to settle this, without a rebuild, as it was going on too long. In the event of a successful claim the insurer advised a rebuild could be completed by another garage.

In April, I was advised that the inspection had taken place and then in May the insurance co contacted me to advise that the claim had been rejected, as the failure was a conrod and that the garage had only performed headwork, they were not at fault. They were not aware of the full rebuild that had taken place.

During this period the garage would not take my calls and my emails went unanswered. I emailed stating a deadline that I expected to hear from them regarding resolution, or I would propose a solution. When this passed, I then propsed a settlement that I felt was very fair. I stated that I expected their contact in regards within 14 days, or would take legal action to recover my costs. When this expired, I made a final attempt to call from another phone. They answered but refused to speak to me and said they'd email that day. In reply, I recieved a short reply stating that as the failure was a conrod, and it was part of the engine I had supplied, they were not liable and the car was ready for collection if I wished. I challenged the cause of the conrod failure, stating that it could have failed due to other reasons caused by their rebuild; they replied stating that they would send it for analysis as advised by their solicitor. I haven't heard back regarding this (as of 4 weeks ago), and have just returned from a 3-week holiday.

I am at a loss as to what to do. I appreciate this job was a right pain for the garage, and initially they did try to resolve it, but I still dont feel that I should be left to pick up the losses in full. They will argue that it was my supplied part that failed, therefore the vast amount of damage is not their liability. But, they did agree in writing to fix the car; when after 8 months it hadn't happened and I insisted on an alternate settlement, they have tried to cut me loose - I don't feel this is at all fair! The failed conrod was within 200 miles of their rebuild, that should not have even been necceesary.

My thoughts are to either contact the insurer again, or cut the crap and make a small claim. I'm just not sure it is even worth the hassle if there's a good chance I'll lose; the whole saga has been demoralising and stressful. Any advice welcomed, or any contact as to some legal advise on the matter would be appreciated!

Cheers
Ross

[raydetinu]

Not legal advice but advice all the same, To take it to court you will need an independant mehanical report and an expert witness to go to court, will cost a lot and you may loose!
The best way now is to negotiate a settlement with them, just for the initial delays alone should be worth something! or just take the car and get it rebuilt somewhere else. I am assuming they rebuilt the engine using the original rods, crank etc. but with a new block and pistons. Pity you did not get the warranty in writting.

[T_Boss]

To conclude this one, I got an expert opinion who pinpointed it to a bearing failure, resulting in stress of the rod causing the bigend to fracture, and then the rod was put through the block. So the rod failure was the result of a bearing failure.

The engineer stated that this was most likely caused by the car being driven hard prior to run-in. Obviously I'm a bit dissapointed as the garage say this removes any liability and it's only my word to say that it was driven at low rpms, with low engine load while in my care. The overheating must have been due to another problem, not caused by my driving, but the engineer did not speculate on any of these possibilities.

Given the scenario, I've agreed to settle on having all the parts stripped and shipped to me, and I'm going to source a new engine myself. I've lost out big-time, and quite frankly I don't know if the garage is liable or this is just damned bad luck. I'm taking it on the chin and moving on.

Cheers
Ross

[Conniff]

Sorry it ended up like this T.

This is a bit niggling:

When I collected the car, I was told that during the final rebuild the engine block had been replaced, as well as the pistons, and a full rebuild had been performed. I was told (but foolishly did not get it in writing) that for this reason, they would honour a 10,000 mile warranty on the engine as if it were their own rebuild. I drove the car home (170 miles), and the next morning went out to put more miles on as I was running it in. After another 20 miles there was a loud tapping followed with a catastrophic 'bang'. There was oil leaking, so at a cost of £170 i had the car returned to the garage.

Why did they change the block?
Did they get it from a scrappy?
Why did they change the pistons?
Were they new pistons or from your original block? If it was the later then not a wise move as the bores will have ovaled and the pistons and rings will have worn to match the original bores so not a good fit.

Are you having the block returned as well?

Why I ask is if you are and the piston with the thrown rod is still in it, check that the conrod has been placed the right way around ie; the oil hole in the big end pointing upwards, (probably still attached to the crankshaft), is facing the thrust side of the cylinder.
If the big end is welded to the crankshaft journal? (Lack of oil & shell melted).

Did they renew the bigend cap bolts and torque them correctly.
Did they put the correct cap on it's mating rod? (Matched rod and cap, must 'not' be interchanged).

There are, of course, other reasons such as fatigue that can make an engine throw a rod, so no ones fault in that case.

As regards to the head. Do you know the history of it? Could it have already been skimmed more than once?
If it had and they had it skimmed as well (not likely as you had overheating so prob head gasket failure), they should have measured the compression and fitted the correct thickness gasket. If they fitted a standard gasket to a head that had been skimmed a few times, this could blow the gasket and let water into the cylinder resulting in a 'hydrolock' which would throw a rod.

On any gasket renewal with an aluminium head (stresses a head gasket), ask for a Teflon coated gasket, they don't have the stress put on them that a steal/mixed one with does.

I know it's too late now, but thought I would just add a few things to keep in mind the next time you entrust your baby to a garage that I assume was not a member of the Federation of Engine Rebuilders.

[riget]

Originally Posted by T_Boss

expert opinion

The engineer stated that this was most likely caused by the car being driven hard prior to run-in.

I would question your "expert engineer" as it's the pistons and bore that are ran-in, not the big-ends.
It's impossible to say without seeing it, but I'd guess 99.9% it was a rebuild error.
If your near leicester I'll have a look for you.

[sickovit]

Originally Posted by riget

I would question your "expert engineer" as it's the pistons and bore that are ran-in, not the big-ends.
It's impossible to say without seeing it, but I'd guess 99.9% it was a rebuild error.
If your near leicester I'll have a look for you.

Hi, Not wishing to dismiss your comment but its factually incorrect.

I build very high performance dragster and hotrod engines and Big ends and Main Bearings do need to be run in. However the customer should have been advised of this fact . A bearing can fail in a new or rebuilt engine if driven or pushed to extremes , but most engine rebuilders are aware of this and allow for this in the rebuild process.

Without seeing the actual engine its very hard to determine what the cause was, i have to agree with my friend above though that it would seem your "expert engineer" was not as described. I am also only 40 minutes from Leicester and would gladly take alook for you , infact if Riget is willing we could take a look together, 2 heads are better than 1 "expert engineer" as they say.

Lastly , it would be advantageous for us to know what kind of HP engine we are talking about ?

[T_Boss]

Thanks for the comments!

To clarify, the engineer was a forensic scientist so very qualified in analysing the failure of the rod, and the conditions that caused it's failure. That stuff is certain. But, he is not able to determine the causes of the initial bearing failure so I take his suggestion it was due to hard driving that caused it with a grain of salt.

I could never quite understand why the block was changed, but yes the pistons were changed with it. The rod went with the engineer. The rod failed due to four separate stress fractures in the bigend, caused by repeated movement of the bigend against the crank, because one of the bigend bearings melted. There were molecular changes only possible by heating in excess of 768C. So MAJOR overheating, hence the engineer's conclusion that (1) the bearing melted (also other evidence of this) and (2) the engine was run for a few minutes afterwards, causing the stress fractures and eventual failure. When i became aware of extra engine noise it was too late - it let go as i tried to get over to the shoulder - it was suggested i should have stopped earlier and would have saved the block, but the engine was solid mounted and very loud so the additional noise was relatively subtle.

The engine was an Audi Quattro 5-pot, dyno'd at 430bhp prior to the work. With a less restrictive exhaust and headwork (that was originally rall that was requested) it should have been IRO 450-470BHP.

What is frustrating is that the report suggested the bearing failure due to my driving, yet I know for a surety that the car was driven lightly to allow bedding in of the rings and bearings. I ran the engine in when it was first built in 2006 using the traditional approach without any problems. If I'd driven it hard, I could have swallowed it, but I know I didn't and thus it points to a rebuild problem or a dodgy bearing still...

You guys are obviously clue'd up - what would the normal causes of bearing failure be (please take my word for it, the car was not driven hard, and this was after only 200 miles) and am I being unreasonable to expect the garage to pick up the bill?

Since we settled, i think it's all been scrapped, but thanks for the offer - car is near Newark so in your neck of the woods too! If i could be sure it's a rebuild fault though i could still claim against the garage's insurer.

Cheers
Ross

[riget]

I'm no scientist just a dumb mechanic, I've been mending cars for 35 years and can give my experiance, as I've seen many blocks with rods sticking out.
So first I'm sure sickovit knows more than me, as I've only rebuilt normal engines (as in not very high performance) Now back many years when big-end and mains were scraped to fit, runing in was said to be needed to allow for any high spots in the shells, as new shells are machined and come out of a packet, I was of the opinion that these do not need running in, only the piston needed running in as this being made of aluminium expands more due to heat.
Many engine rebuilders say an engine should not be ran in, but thrashed in, as this makes a better seal for the piston rings, but that's another thing.
Now for me the biggest reason for failure of a big-end is lack of oil, this can be not enough oil in the engine, a failure of the lubrication system, ie: oil pump, pressure relief valve, or a blockage.
Now do you know for sure the oil pressure light and or gauge was working? if yes then you should have seen the light come on, or the gauge drop just before the engine failure, if it was due to no oil pressure, but a blockage near the big-end wouldn't have given this.
I have seen a big-end failure due to the big-end bolts not being tight enough, it happened about 1500 miles after a rebuild.
I've seen a failure because the big-end cap fitted the wrong way round, this failed during road test after rebuild.
Now I can't say anything against your forensic scientist, but having determined the temperature exceeded 768c, could he not determine if oil was present at the time of failure, could the oil be analised for the same excessive temperature, remember oil is good at cooling the engine, would the high temp be reached if oil was supplied correctly?

[sickovit]

Big question here is "was the piston seized in the bore" ?

Without inspecting the motor unfortunately what you will have is only best guess scenario and i doubt would stand up in any court!

were Uprated rods used ?

what oil was in the engine?

If they used a semi or full synthetic oil then theres your problem!

I suspect the answer lies in the motor, if they messed up on 1 journal then i,d put money on other parts being fitted incorrectly, you really need to get your hands on whats left of the motor so we can inspect it properly.

A forensic scientist will give you the answer to the actual failure whereas a mechanic will tell you how it was caused!

[Conniff]

There are so many if's and but's here, things like 'were the shells changed', if so were ovesized shells used instead of standard.
Irrespective of the revs, if there was a good oil feed the shells would not have melted, even a reduced feed would only wipe the white metal and leave a rattle that would have you pulling over immediately.

As mentioned in all the threads, damage was caused by throwing a conrod, but what caused that seizure to start with, where did that temperature increase come from.

I will go with the others, this was a rebuilding fault.