Advice needed

[robby71]

I've just bought a new car (2003 bmw) from a main dealers (ford dealers) and i'm looking for some advice.
The dealers is 180 miles away so was bought over the phone with me leaving a deposit subject to the car being as described.
The car was described as excellent except for 1 scuffed alloy so the deposit was paid and collection was agreed for the following weekend (last week) which gave them a week to mot and fully service the car.
On collection of the car last week i noticed the roof had several small dents in the roof which the salesman said he'd get sorted by a mobile company who would come out to my home/ work.
When i got home i checked the car over and found the oil level below min on the dipstick and the air + pollen filters filthy but the service book had been stamped to say the service had been done. I phoned the salesman who said he had an oil filter and 2 new tyres there and the service should have been done that morning but it wasn't.
He agreed for me to have the oil + filters changed local and reimberse me the cost when i send the invoices.
This morning i had the service done and the mechanic pointed out both rear suspension springs had snapped and the handbrake wasn't holding - both of these are mot failures and the selling dealer has issued a new mot?
I spoke to the service manager to complain about these items this morning and he said to have the work done and he will pay the costs.
Tonight the sales manager has phoned to say he's not willing to pay for the springs but will take the car back and reimberse me for what i have spent on the service and the cost of the car. he says the car was priced wrong and is unwilling to spend any more money on it?
I said i was keeping the car (it was the 1st i've found after looking for weeks with the spec/ price so wont find another) and will have the springs changed and send him the bill or will contact VOSA as the car wasn't fit to pass an mot with broken springs/ faulty rear brakes.
He wasn't happy with this and has said either i return the car and get a refund (so i'm back to square 1 ) or will refuse to pay when i send the invoices.

I want to keep the car, have the work sorted and get a full refund for the expenses, the manager has refused to allow full rectification so what can i do next?

I'll send the invoices next week when the springs are changed but what can i do to make sure the dealers pay in full?

Do i contact VOSA and tell them the garage has passed a car fit for a MOT with broken suspension/ dodgy brakes?

Do i contact trading standards to say they've stamped a service book when they haven't serviced the car (fraud?)

What are the next steps i should take?

Thanks

[Conniff]

....but will take the car back and reimberse me for what i have spent.....

I bet he is more than willing.

Do i contact VOSA and tell them the garage has passed a car fit for a MOT with broken suspension/ dodgy brakes?

Go here first Robby and check the MoT

MOT Information - Introduction

Let us know what it says.

[robby71]

This is a copy from the site

Change of detailsMake/Model:BMW / 320 recorded at time of test on 27/02/2007

Date of test:08/04/2008Certificate issued (Pass)
Odometer reading:53,823 Miles
Test number xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Test station name xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Test station number xxxxxx
Test station telephone number xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Test class:IV
Test expiry date:07/04/2009
Advisory Notice issuedWindscreen has damage to an area less than a 40mm circle outside zone 'A' (8.3.1d)Brake master cylinder fluid close to minimum level (3.6.C.1e)O/s front tyre 2-3mm.N/s front tyre has a cut in tread and close to legal limit.

This completes the test history for the above vehicle as recorded on VOSA's MOT Computerisation Database

[Conniff]

Does the mileage tally with what you have now?

The brake fluid being low is a sign that the pads are very worn (unless there is a leak).

Give the seller one last chance to agree to payment, including the springs, and see what he says. If it is still no, then end the conversation with "Ok, I will be reporting it to Vosa". Don't be too quick to put the phone down, he might just be calling 'ang on a sec'.

Once you have reported it to Vosa, you will take away the incentive of the seller to be accommodating towardsyou and any repairs, but have a read of the Vosa site and see if there is a time limit to reporting a problem MoT.
If there is a time limit and you are still within it, you will need to report it as soon as you can so that it can be actioned.

It is much safer for you to have the repairs done at another garage than the sellers, and it is also much easier to take him to court to reclaim payment.

I will give him the fact that he is a quick thinker giving you the story about it being priced wrong.

[robby71]

The mileage on the mot tallies with the car but the mileage in the service book (which they stamped) is over by 2000+ miles?

The springs are due to be changed next saturday at my local bmw dealers so it will be the following week when i send all the invoices to the garage.
The service manager agreed to pay but the sales manager has refused to pay so i don't know what will happen now.
It is a big company which has numerous garages in its network so i could get in touch with their head office to report the sales manager?

[Conniff]

Don't send the original invoices and receipts, get them copied and send the copies. Send them recorded or registered.

[robby71]

Originally Posted by Conniff

Don't send the original invoices and receipts, get them copied and send the copies. Send them recorded or registered.

Yes- was planning on doing this as the origionals might get lost

[gwc1000]

IMO I don't think that you will get the result that you want. ( I have to admit I am a car dealer) The dealer on finding out that the car is faulty has offered you a full refund plus costs that you have incurred. (Would look good in the eyes of a Judge) But you have chosen to reject this and not only insist on keeping the car (why would you want to keep a faulty car?) you have made the decision yourself to spend more money. Any further work on the car that you choose to pay for is on your own back and if I were the dealer in this case I would refuse to pay also, and I would invite Court action. Also you should remember the MoT is only valid at the actual time of the test. You have driven home 180 miles, and it could be argued in that time the springs could have broken. I can almost guarantee VOSA will not be interested.

[Conniff]

It is his right to keep the car and have it repaired.

why would you want to keep a faulty car?)

It wont be faulty when the springs are replaced.

You have driven home 180 miles, and it could be argued in that time the springs could have broken.

This is where 'Advisory Notes' come in. There is no advisory that there is corrosion on the suspension (assuming as the op has not said so after looking at the Vosa site), and enough corrosion to make them weak enough to break after such a short mileage would or should have been noticed by the tester, and to cover himself, he should have given an advisory to that effect.

VOSA will re-visit a corrosion issue on a disciplinary basis up to three months after an MOT

[gwc1000]

Originally Posted by Conniff

It is his right to keep the car and have it repaired.

Errmm, I will have to agree to disagree on that one. On learning the vehicle is of unmerchantable quality the dealer has offered to refund the full purchase price and reimburse all costs so far. Any future work that the customer chooses to undertake after refusing a refund I would suggest would be at his own expense and folly. I simply don't think any Judge would find in the customer's favour. As I said, if I were the dealer and the customer would not accept a refund plus costs, I also would refuse to pay the costs of further repairs and would encourage Court action from the customer.

[Conniff]

The soga and sogas give the consumer the right to a refund, it does not give the seller the right to demand that he has one.

This is obviously going to eat into the profit made on that car and the seller does not want that, so if he can get the car back, he can get a couple of spings from the local scrappy and do the job on the cheap and have it back in the yard in a couple of days.

It's not 'unmerchantable'. It can be put on the lot for sale with the springs broken and a sign put in the windscreen that it has broken springs, and priced accordingly.

[Conniff]

Robby - if the car is on finance, you should be sending copies of all correspondence to the finance company as well as the seller.

[gwc1000]

Originally Posted by Conniff

The soga and sogas give the consumer the right to a refund, it does not give the seller the right to demand that he has one.

But the point I am making is that at any subsequent Court action the Judge would consider that the dealer had been more than fair by offering a refund plus all incuured costs. From past experience I am confident he would find in favour of the dealer

Originally Posted by Conniff

This is obviously going to eat into the profit made on that car and the seller does not want that, so if he can get the car back, he can get a couple of spings from the local scrappy and do the job on the cheap and have it back in the yard in a couple of days.

I agree. The dealer can fit a pair of springs much cheaper than a BMW Main Agent.

Originally Posted by Conniff

It's not 'unmerchantable'. It can be put on the lot for sale with the springs broken and a sign put in the windscreen that it has broken springs, and priced accordingly.

I completely disagree. A dealer displaying a car for sale in an unroadworthy condition (despite any signs describing faults) can be prosecuted by Trading Standards. A dealer colleague of mine was prosecuted for having a vehicle on his forecourt with two tyres under the legal limit, even though the vehicle hadn't gone on the road and he intended to change them before the vehicle was sold

[Conniff]

Originally Posted by gwc1000

A dealer colleague of mine was prosecuted for having a vehicle on his forecourt with two tyres under the legal limit, even though the vehicle hadn't gone on the road and he intended to change them before the vehicle was sold

Sorry don't believe that. You can have what you like on private land.

At what court was this and what was the case number ??

[gwc1000]

I am disappointed you don't beleive me. This incident was on a dealer's forecourt in Cambridge, admittedly in the 1980s. So getting the case number might prove difficult. Prosecution was brought by Trading Standards and the case was heard at Cambridge Magistrates Court, Lion Yard. You are right you may have a vehicle in any condition on private ground, however a Motor Trader who has a vehicle on his pitch with a price displayed is deemed to be offering the vehicle for sale. The vehicle must be roadworthy. If not, it is considered that he is offering to sell a car in unroadworthy condition, even though there may not be a customer. This is an offence. I have had Trading Standards on my forecourt twice in the last three years. I hasten to say that I didn't have any problems.

[robby71]

The only issues i have is i bought the car as described - fully serviced + MOTd - this is the standard i expected the car to be up to.
I only want the springs changed so the car is to this standard - i'm not wanting performance parts fitting just origionals - when these are replaced the car wont be faulty

I did forget to mention in the opening post that the car was sold minus the prep pack which i had to pay extra for £295 which was to cover the service, mot, 3 months warranty, valet so i have actually paid for work which hasn't been done properly.
I have spoken to the warranty company today to see if they would cover the springs and they say it's unlikely both would fail at the same time so they will only pay for 1 spring and labour at their reduced rate.

[LancerQRL]

bmw rear springs failing is very common due to corrosion, it is usually just one of the ends that snap. it is worth noting that these springs are very very short to start with and may be missed by a less than eagle eyed m o t tester unless he or she runs their fingers around to feel the end, also they are very cheap from bmw dealers.