Bought a dodgy car

[johnhowell]

All,

The story so far:
My step daughter bought a car that was advertised on the side of the road. Citroen Saxo 1.2 X reg. She took it for a little test drive and was OK except for weak brakes - which the chap stated was due to the ABS system. It was noted that he was not the registered keeper - to which he stated it was a trade-in. A price was agreed and step-daughter took cash to his address - a business unit he uses for trading as tyres and exhaust garage. It appears he does buy/sell cars there as well.

Next day, in the bright sunlight it was clear that the paint work was not very good, the panels and lights did not line up. A mechanic friend looked further and found the battery was untied in the engine bay and the radiator top bracket was missing, also the car does not have ABS at all!. This friend looked at the receipt and the seller had sold under his garage name and put SOLD AS SEEN, also filled out the garage/trade portion of the V5. This receipt also stated that the vehicle had been classed Cat D. This was not mentioned before, but she never asked.

Step-D telephoned the chap and asks for money back as missold and unroad worthy. He refuses to take car back. Step-D calls Trading Standards (very bold for her) and they are very interested in the case. They take the car to the orginal MOT station with VOSA and re-test it - it fails on lights. Brakes were OK but on the low side. Looking through paperwork, the station had failed it before, the trader took the car away and returned for re-test. It passed this time but the tester remember that the lights looked out of line with the panels. Obviously the trader then lined up the lights with the panels to sell. Trading Standards also wrote to the trader - but unaware of the contents.

Step-D wrote a letter based on Trading Standards template to refuse acceptance of the car. It was sent Registered Post - post office lost this, never arrived, so letter sent normal post, this was received. On telephoning the chap he said he needed time to get money together - even offered another car in trade! Trading Standard commented that "have you ever heard a garage not having a few thousand ready to buy a car".

This has now dragged on a few more weeks. Step-D can not contact Trading Standards, continual ringing, again.

More complications: The car's engine management light is on permanently and is running rough - fluctuating revs. Citroen garage say trailer it to them to sort out. Step-D has not used the car since buying it, so is reliant on friends, mother and me for transport to and from work, etc. She works in a petrol garage and does not take much home (she borrowed £1k from grandparents to help buy the car) - she does not want to spend any more for this car.

Options:
1 - send a Letter Before Action giving him 7 days the buy back the car, or else small claims court (I am unsure of this process to advise Step-D). Is it easy, online? (he did say "take me to court", but could be bluffing, to fob her off)

2 - take car to Citroen garage and get car fixed and then sell privately to get as much money back as possible.

Apologises for the length of this post but it has been a rather painful couple of months.

Your comments and assistance gratefully received.
John

[Bookworm]

Option 1, but you have to give him 14 days for 1st letter, then 14 for 2nd letter (see Library for bank templates and adapt to your circumstances), then start court action.

Small Claims is very easy online, link for MCOL is also in the Library.

Option 2 is not an option, as you could then be inflicting the same kind of distress on someone else, which is a big no-no morally, and also if the next person is consumer savvy, you could then find yourself at the defending end of a claim.

When writing your letters and claim, make sure that you state that your are rejecting the goods under SOGA, that's the key element.

[johnhowell]

Bookworm,

Thank you for your reply.

We have already sent a letter (not the LBA) rejecting the car stating the SOGA, this was based on a template sent by Trading Standards. Does this count as the 14 days first letter.

Or is the LBA 14 days and then another one with 7 days then MCOL?

Should we send these letters by Special Delivery (remember RM lost both previous Recorded letters) Or hand deliver to the premises? Are they assumed to be received 2 days later? The premises are open only occasionally.

This is getting rather depressing, Step-D is rather upset by the whole process, and it just seems to be dragging on. This explains option 2.

A question that Step-D has: will the court allow a business settle the case by paying £5 a week? Or because it is a business the court will rule on full payment? What happens if he refuses to pay? Do we send in the court bailiffs to the business? When would the car have to be delivered to him - I assume after full settlement received?

Sorry for the extra questions.

Regards,
John

[Bookworm]

Q1: Yes, it does. After that, you can go on to LBA 14 days (not 7!).

Special delivery, I never bother. Take it to your PO and ask for a certificate of delivery, which is free! You don't need to prove that they received, only that you sent it.

Q from your Step-D: Unlikely that a business would be allowed to settle @ £5 a week. If he refuses to pay, I believe that you can proceed with a winding-up order, or send in the bailiffs, but I'm not 100% on procedures with businesses, to familiarise yoursefl with the procedure: Making a Claim

Some people advise filling in the court claim form now, and send in a photocopy with your LBA to show them that you will carry it through, it might be worth a shot, and to let them know that unless they have paid in full by X date, that's when you'll be filing.

As for the car, it's really up to him to come and get it, I think, but I would say that once you have full refund, it will be easier to drop it off and be done with it.

[johnhowell]

Bookworm,

Thank you your answers, most helpful.

I shall read the website link you provided.

Here goes...

Regards,
John

[johnhowell]

Further questions:

As the business unit is rarely open - can we send the letters and enter the correspondence address on the court forms as the registered office address as listed on Companies House website?

This address is the business' accountants address. Should we telephone the accountants to confirm they represent this business as the account is listed as OVERDUE.

Regards,
John

[johnhowell]

Originally Posted by johnhowell

Further questions:

As the business unit is rarely open - can we send the letters and enter the correspondence address on the court forms as the registered office address as listed on Companies House website?

This address is the business' accountants address. Should we telephone the accountants to confirm they represent this business as the account is listed as OVERDUE.

Regards,
John

BUMP

[Chesterexpress]

Court documents must be sent to the registered office address of a business, as listed with companies house.

[GuidoT]

I would issue the letter first to the Registered office, wait a few days and telephone to check if they have received it. During that call they will soon tell you if they do not act as the registered office for the requisite company.

The address is usually correct on the Companies House website.

[johnhowell]

Chesterexpress, GuidoT,

Thank you both for your replies.

Regards,
John

[johnhowell]

Here is the draft of the first LBA letter I would like to send. I have confirmed that the acountants are still the registered office for the garage. Any comments:

LETTER BEFORE ACTION

Dear Sir,

Re: Citroen Saxo reg:XXXX
I purchased the above vehicle from you on 15 September 2007 at a cost of £1,500 cash and £300 trade in of Peugeot 306 reg XXXX, total value £1,800.

The following faults have come to my attention and have been verified by Trading Standards and VOSA:

Radiator mountings broken/missing
Category D write-off only stated on the receipt
Ill-fitting body panels and lights
Lack of ABS brakes
Brakes too soft
Loose and leaking battery

The Sales of Goods Act 1979 (as amended) requires all goods supplied to be of satisfactory quality and as described. Furthermore, it is not lawful to state “sold as seen” on a receipt issued by a tradesman.

I am not satisfied with the standard of the car and seek a full refund, in cash, of the total purchase price of £1,800. I am within my rights to take this action as you sold me the car under a trade contract. This was discussed during our telephone conversation on 19 September 2007 and subsequent conversations. If you do not comply fully within 14 days then I shall begin a claim against you for the full amount plus my costs and without further notice.

Please contact me before this date to arrange the return of the car and the refund of £1,800.


Yours faithfully,

[johnhowell]

Any comments would be most welcome.

John

[Bookworm]

No comments, it's fine, IMO. Specify that you are rejecting the car under SOGA 79 so that there can be no later confusion, and you're good to go.

[johnhowell]

Bookworm,

Thank you for your comments through this thread - good to get some support when uncertain.

Shall now proceed.

Regards,
John

[Biscuit1]

Hello John,

I need to speak to you urgently as I think I have bought a car from the same people using a 'front man', the same set of problems has occured.


Kind regards
Carol Monks

[389shell]

Any news?