help needed, brought a misdescribed car

[doober]

hello to you all, I have just brought a golf gti, locally from ebay.
Seller seemed really genuine, met at his house inspected the car there and all seemed fine.
picked car up today and drove 10 miles home,when i got home the car was billowing smoke from the exhaust,contacted the seller who came round about 2 hours later. we then proceded to have a heated discussion about the problem, the car smokes constantly at tick over but stops smoking when driven, typical symptons of worn valve seals.

seller denies anything is wrong at all and says that it is a 15 year old car and all golfs smoke(which i find to be ridiculous claim as it smokes like a train).
the ebay listing has the claim "engine starts and runs faultlessly" which is far fromthe truth,i asked for a full refund on many occasions, but he refused and the only offer he made was to phone a friend of his because he apparently used to work at vw.

i have been looking on a lot of websites about this problem and i came across the citizens advice page, which states :

If you can show that the vehicle did not meet its description the seller will be liable under consumer law, even if the seller believed the description to be true. It will strengthen your claim if you have written proof of the false statement, for example, an advertisement. Verbal false statements are harder to prove, unless someone else was present who can act as a witness.
the car was described as"engine starts and runs faultlessly" which is obviously a lie.
what is my best course of action?citizens advice then solicitor?
any help would be very appreciated.

[freakyleaky]

If you have bought it through ebay you may be covered by the regulations regarding false descriptions.
But if the description does not specifically say that the engine does not smoke when ticking over you may have a problem. If the engine actually starts and ticks over ok, then whether it smokes while doing so could be irrelevant.
If you think it was mis described then firstly you should contact ebay and see where you stand legally with them.
I am sure you will get some more feedback on this before long.

[doober]

listing quotes "engine starts and runs faultlessly" it is far from faultless, i have taken video clips of it so far and i am ringing garages to have it looked at.

[freakyleaky]

Have you contacted ebay? If not then report it as a false description. They are not very quick but they normally help you in the end. I hope you get it sorted soon.

[doober]

thanks freaky, i have been looking on ebay,trying to find some way to complain, but it seems you have to wait 10 days.

[freakyleaky]

I thought it was 7 days? Could be wrong though! I haven't used ebay for a while and can't remember the rules for reporting stuff. I was lucky with it though. I only ever had a couple of problems with sellers and they were normally the ones with poor feedback or new members. I would advise to steer clear of both in future.
Did this guy have a good feedback rating?

[doober]

amazingly he had very good feedback, i have just contacted him again using ebay email as this is recorded by ebay and would be proof that i contacted him regarding the matter, i have asked him to refund the money or pay for engine repairs. time will tell with what he replies with.from our "conversation" yesterday i think he had been sold the car with the problem as he kept saying that he did not think it was a problem and the previous owner had told hom thay all smoke. dont get me wrong i would expect a little smoke from a car this old but this is really bad, i stood behind recording the smoke for 2 minutes and when i had finished i absolutely reeked of oil.

[Weird Al Yankovic]

Word of warning here.
I had a similar problem buying a car from e-bay.

The car was clearly mis-described as I had the print off of the advert.

There was another owner that wasn't declared, the 'full service history' was only part history, it was said to run like a dream but broke down almost straight away etc etc.

I took the owner to the small claims as she refused a refund and I lost the case!

The judge decided that 'buyer beware' and the seller could not be held responsible for 'mistakes' made in her advert as she was not prolific in selling cars and she overlooked these false descriptions!

I was gobsmacked!

[Conniff]

The are completely different standards between private and trade. Just about the only recourse on private is if the vehicle is 'dangerous'.
Check through his feedback and see what else he has sold. If there is more than one car then in all likely he is a dealer and can be reported to revenue and customs as well as having to adhere to trading standards.

Best of luck.

[Weird Al Yankovic]

Originally Posted by Conniff

The are completely different standards between private and trade. Just about the only recourse on private is if the vehicle is 'dangerous'.
Check through his feedback and see what else he has sold. If there is more than one car then in all likely he is a dealer and can be reported to revenue and customs as well as having to adhere to trading standards.

Best of luck.

Yes, after my experience this is the case. Although there was an illegal tyre too this still didn't cut any mustard.

The judge was sympathetic and said that, due to the amount of mis-description of the car, he would have awarded me the case 99% of the time but he gave the seller the benefit of the doubt.

Although he didn't allow me to appeal which seems odd considering the above comment!

[doober]

i bet you were livid with the judge al, how do they make their judgements beggars belief.
In a court of law, how can anyone blatantly lie and get away with it?
I did a hpi check with the rac before the purchase and all was fine, it also included 7 days free insurance (which is worthless right now) but also 60 days free legal assistance.so i will be calling them for advice next week.also going to citizens advice next week and taking the car to get appraised. as for if the car is dangerous, is that just that it could cause an accident? or in this case, would giving members of the public cancer with the exhaust emmisions count?
a work colleague of mine had the same sort of problem with a car and won his case, must just go down to how the judge is feeling.

[Conniff]

Originally Posted by freakyleaky

If you have bought it through ebay you may be covered by the regulations regarding false descriptions.
But if the description does not specifically say that the engine does not smoke when ticking over you may have a problem. If the engine actually starts and ticks over ok, then whether it smokes while doing so could be irrelevant.
If you think it was mis described then firstly you should contact ebay and see where you stand legally with them.
I am sure you will get some more feedback on this before long.

Even a private seller must adhere to the 'false descriptions' legislation.

"It starts and runs faultlessly". Is that different from it having a fault and running well, which it undoubtedly does, probably valve stem oil seals as mentioned.

As a mechanic for 40 years and a garage owner for over 20, I would say no, it is not different and the engine 'does not run faultlessly', so it was misdescribed.
I would be very sceptical if it would pass an emissions test either.

[doober]

hi connif, i have no doubt it would fail the emissions test, the way it smokes it is also unroadworthy.
i have got the car being looked at on tuesday, i will ask about the emissions then too.

[Weird Al Yankovic]

Originally Posted by doober

hi connif, i have no doubt it would fail the emissions test, the way it smokes it is also unroadworthy.
i have got the car being looked at on tuesday, i will ask about the emissions then too.

Important point too doober about my case I lost.

After the car broke down I had to have it repaired but I also had an MOT done on it before hand and it failed on several points including emissions.

Despite this the judge didn't seem to want to know. I argued that the car was obviously unroadworthy as it failed an MOT just 20 miles into my ownership but even this wasn't good enough! (It appears the excuse 'it was all right when I had it' is what counts as the judge said the contract was made on exchange of cash and that is the end of it).

I guess with a private seller the only way you will win is if you thought you bought a Jaguar as advertised but when you go to pick it up it's an Escort!!

[Conniff]

I guess with a private seller the only way you will win is if you thought you bought a Jaguar as advertised but when you go to pick it up it's an Escort!!

So that's why all judges have Escorts! Only thing is they obviously still think they have a Jaguar.

You know, looking at the whole sentencing thing for all crimes and there is no consistency, they either play games with their kids the night before on what to give or there is special hat to draw out from. If the later it will have been produced by the makers of BBC and ITV quizes.