Advice required regarding a dodgy car dealer

[Gingerman]

Hello, I was hoping anyone could help with a little bit of a situation regarding a second hand card I bought in May 2007. I have included as much fact as I can, so apologies that it is a long thread to read, but I would definitely appreciate any feedback.........

I bought a car over the phone, and having spoken to 2 salesmen about it, they both said it was in "immaculate" condition. On seeing and buying car, there were marks and scratches that would definitely dispute the "immaculate" claim, plus rattling of the exhaust (which both my wife and I questioned) and this was said to be normal, and would dissepate after 15 minutes of driving. They also told me that if any work was needed on the car, I could get it done in London (the car was bought in Loughborough and I live in NE London). Subsequently, I took the car. On taking the car to a mechanic for another fault, he immediately said that the rattling of the exhaust was due to a faulty exhaust catalyst (and he noted how annoying the rattle can be). This is not what was said by the 2 salesmen. In early July 2007, I started calling the dealer to find out what I should do. They said to me to get a quote from a local mechanic, and fax it to them. I did as they asked. I was only concerned about 3 issues with the car (examine door hinges, a faulty CD player and leaking water), but when the mechanic told me of the faulty exhaust, I felt cheated, and so I added all the faults I could see on the car to the list. To cut a long story short, the warranty manager refused to return a single call of mine (20 calls made in total), and since end of August 2007, one of the director's has been dealing with me. It is now 3 months since I raised the issue.

The car was not moving, and sat on my driveway for nearly 2 months. Subsequently, we have had the work done at a cost of over £600 just to get it roadworthy. I have not had any extra work done, which the car would require to be in an "immaculate" state. I asked them to pay the £600 only, and we can forget about the remainder of the list of issues.
He is basically saying that it is the word of the 2 salesmen against that of my wife and I with regards to the rattling of the exhaust. Secondly, he ha snow reneged on the offer to let me get the work done in London.
(He has made a gesture to pay £300 towards the costs of these 2 items only. He refueses to talk about the whole list of items, and says he is making a fair gesture regarding the 2 items. What he won't admit to is that his salesmen have basically told lies against myself and changed their story.)

Having looked at Sale of Goods Act 1979, I am reading it such that allowing for wear and tear:
1. the car must be of satisfactory quality (this is what I am arguing for - the car is not "immaculate")
2. the car must be fit for its purpose (it took me to london from loughborough, but within 1300 or so miles, it packed up, and more importantly, within 6 months of purchase)
3. the car must be as described (when they say it is in "immaculate" condition, any person using parkers etc would assume that this is the equivalent of being in A1 condition - the car is not "immaculate")

Also, I was told that if a problem emerges within 6 months of purchase, it is deemed to exist at time of purchase - can someone clarify this for me too please.

This is the list of items that I am questioning:
1. faulty exhaust on purchase (dealer claims this is 'wear and tear', but we are saying it was apparent on purchase, so we did not cause this)
2. holes in dashboard (from a phone holder or something similar - definitely not 'wear and tear')
3. cracked wing mirror casing - is this 'wear and tear'. I say it is caused by someone's driving ability.
4. faulty CD player - surely they can provide evidence of checks being made on this system
5. long scratch on bodywork
6. crack in bumper - definitely man made crack
7. injector harnesses failed
8. scratched up centre console - again, definitely man made crack
9. worn out driver's seat
10. door are not sitting on hinges correctly

The car was 3.5 years old when I bought it,and had done 82,418 miles

It is very stressful to date. I do need the car. I have had work done on items (1) and (7), and sent the invoice to the dealer. They said their gesture is simply to pay £300 i.e. how much it would cost them to do the work in Loughborough, but they are refusing to acknowledge the other items on the list. Surely this must account for something. The director is telling me that it costs half the amount because they can get discounted parts and cheap labour.

I have said to the dealer that I would forget the full list if they would pay for items (1) & (7). They seem to think that it is just these 2 items that we should be concerned with. This is not the case.

I have asked for evidence of their costing and also of the checks made on the vehicle, but the dealer is not forthcoming in this respect.

Does anyone think I have a strong enough case to get something back. I am not being greedy when I ask for full payment of 2 items rather than the full list (I am aware that a couple of items may come under the 'wear and tear' category) - and should I also include the cost of road tax and insurance payments that have been wasted?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

[Chesterexpress]

You obviously looked at the car before handing over your money?

[demon_x_slash]

See my post on the subject here. You are still within what I like to call the Golden 6-Month period. Businesses that use the phrase 'Sold as Seen' are doing so illegally; only private sellers can do so.

[Gingerman]

Chesterexpress, I did see the car before I paid the cash. I was aware of some faults, but what was annoying was that they refuse to acknowledge and repair the faulty exhaust catalyst and faulty CD player. They go on to deny that discussions about the exhaust and CD player had not taken place, which in reality means my wife and I are not telling the truth. The other faults, I can live with.

Demon x Slash, thank you. I will take a look at this now and let you know what happens.

[Chesterexpress]

So the list of faults you describe above, did you point these out to them before you purchased the car and if so what was said/agreed about them?

[Gingerman]

Most of the items were disregarded as being 'wear and tear'. It is only after reading other consumer web-sites etc that I would consider some of them as man-made rather than 'wear and tear' e.g. the 4 holes in the dashboard, no one can say that this is from 'wear and tear' - at the time of purchase, my concentration wasn't on this as much as it ought to have been.
As for exhaust, we did ask them about it, and they said it was normal for a diesel car, and would quiten down after about 10-15 minutes. As this wasn't the case, I then started investigating about the other faults in more depth. This is how the full list came about.

[Gingerman]

Chesterexpress, I forgot to say also that the CD player was only used when we got the car back in London, so I could not ask them about it. Also, the water leaking above driver's door only happened on the weekend when it was raining. On the day I picked up the car, in the afternoon, there was blue sky.

Therefore, when you add the cost of these two items to the faulty exhaust (which I felt cheated on), I ended up including the full list of items to show the car is not "immaculate", which is how they described it to me.

[vandermerwe]

Gingerman

I sympathise with you. What make and model and how much did you pay?

If it's a diesel how come it has an exhaust catalyst - aren't those for petrol engines?

Regards

Van

[Gingerman]

Hey Van,
it is for a 2003 land rover discovery, and i paid 12500. (the invoice reads exhaust manifold for the faulty exhaust part that was replaced.). it is a diesel automatic.

regards