Brakes need replacing - my reponsibility or the retailer?

[MrShed]

Hi all,

this could probably go in vehicle retailers instead, but as it is a bit more technical figured here was the place to go.

I bought a Nissan Micra 1.2S in Jan this year, with a mileage on the clock of 13.5k and warranty(manufacturers) until October. This was from a franchised dealer. I have had a few problems with it, but primarily the brakes which I will concentrate on.

Pretty much straight away after buying the car, the brakes were squeaking. Took it to dealer, said it was the weather. About 3-4 months later it hadnt gone, so took it to another dealer for a second opinion, who said the front brake pads were severely worn. Took it back to the original dealer, who eventually capitulated and replaced the pads for free.

Fast forward to now, about 2 months later, 2000 miles later, and the brakes are squeaking again. Took it in, and it now needs replacement rear brake shoes and replacement front discs. To replace the discs, the brake pads(again!) need replacing. This is going to cost well in excess of £200.

Some brief background. The car was sold on the basis that it had a full service "and then some" before we collected it. Also, the car now has 20.5k on the clock, and it is now 6-7 months after original purchase. My relative has the same car, 21k on the clock, and has had to replace no brake parts - we are very similar drivers.

Needless to say, I am a bit peeved. My questions are as follows:

- Does anyone else agree that this seems as if the initial checks were not done properly?
- Do I have a point regarding the fact that the time between initially reporting the fault and it getting repaired, due to their weather comment, could have caused the disc damage(it now has a "lip" on the edge)?
- Do I have a claim on not fit for purpose, for something causing the brakes to wear this quickly?
- Do I have a claim on the fact that either the pads were not fitted properly causing the damage, or that the disc damage should have been spotted during this fitting, and as such a pointless replacement should have been prevented?
- Does anyone know how long this "lip" would usually take to appear? And does anyone know how long the pads/discs/shoes should last on average?

Thanks in advance!!

[patdavies]

Originally Posted by MrShed

I bought a Nissan Micra 1.2S in Jan this year, with a mileage on the clock of 13.5k and warranty(manufacturers) until October. This was from a franchised dealer. I have had a few problems with it, but primarily the brakes which I will concentrate on.

Pretty much straight away after buying the car, the brakes were squeaking. Took it to dealer, said it was the weather. About 3-4 months later it hadnt gone, so took it to another dealer for a second opinion, who said the front brake pads were severely worn. Took it back to the original dealer, who eventually capitulated and replaced the pads for free.-

I would say that you have been extremely lucky to get this done for free

Fast forward to now, about 2 months later, 2000 miles later, and the brakes are squeaking again. Took it in, and it now needs replacement rear brake shoes and replacement front discs. To replace the discs, the brake pads(again!) need replacing. This is going to cost well in excess of £200.

Some brief background. The car was sold on the basis that it had a full service "and then some" before we collected it. Also, the car now has 20.5k on the clock, and it is now 6-7 months after original purchase. My relative has the same car, 21k on the clock, and has had to replace no brake parts - we are very similar drivers.

But you don't know how your car was driven for the first 13,5000 kmiles - so your comparison is meaningless

- Does anyone else agree that this seems as if the initial checks were not done properly?

No, during a service, it is normal only to comment on the brake pads if they are unlikely to last until the next service.

- Do I have a point regarding the fact that the time between initially reporting the fault and it getting repaired, due to their weather comment, could have caused the disc damage(it now has a "lip" on the edge)?

A lip is not damage, it is wear. Since asbestos was removed from brake pads/linings, the disc has become sacrificial - discs now need regular replacement

- Do I have a claim on not fit for purpose, for something causing the brakes to wear this quickly?

I doubt it, since there is no evidence that the brakes are wearing excessively

- Do I have a claim on the fact that either the pads were not fitted properly causing the damage, or that the disc damage should have been spotted during this fitting, and as such a pointless replacement should have been prevented?

As I pointed out above, this is not damage; it is wear - so I can't see any basis for any sort of claim

- Does anyone know how long this "lip" would usually take to appear? And does anyone know how long the pads/discs/shoes should last on average?

The life of brake parts is entirely dependent on how the vehicle is driven and the specification of any after-market parts

[MATTYFEZ]

I agree with pat points,

However, garages, espacialy main dealers love to play the "your brakes are shot" card.

It strikes fear into the heart of the customer who usually parts with the cash no questons asked.

most brake disks develop "lips" on the edge, which while showing that the brakes are getting slowly worn, by no means means that they need replacing.
this is not to be confused with a knocking or grinding sensation, which points to very worn pads.


Two bits of advice i will offer are....

Firstly, get the brakes inspected at an independant garage, best way to do this is book it in for the wheels to be tracked and alligned, and ask them to "have a butchers" as the brakes are a bit squeaky while they are at it.


Secondly, the squealing issue isnt serious, its actually due the the way the brakes were worn in from new...
the disks and the pads (the friction areas) when either are brand new, go through a process called "bedding in" where they are heated/ground down to form a perfect fit to each other.

Normally this is achived by getting the brakes warmed up, say from half an hours driving, periodicly using the brakes,
and then doing a series of progressivley harder stops untill the disks and pads are seated properly.

What actually happens during this process is that some of the brake pad material is transfered from the pad, to form a coating on the disk.


when this is not done correctly, it results in un-even pad material getting transfered to the disk resulting in judder and squeaking....hence why you should never sit with your foot on the brake at traffic lights, the hot pad will "stick" slightly to the disk, resulting in an un-even brake area.


i suspect, if the independant garage will find no "serious" problems, you should follow the "bedding in" procedure, and dont be shy, it requires some pretty heavy use of the brake pedal, to get both friction surfaces (pad and disk) flush with each other and operating silently again.

instruction and explanation are in the following links...

StopTech : Balanced Brake Upgrades

Instructions for bedding in your brakes

[MrShed]

Thanks Matty, thats some excellent advice there, really appreciate it!