HFC/GM Voluntary charge over property

[bevo]

Received a letter from HFC after requesting a copy of the signed legal agreement. They sent me six statements. They also said "please note we are currently unable to locate the Legal Agreement, we will forward it to you as soon as it becomes available".

What should I do now?? Help much appreciated.

[old_andrew2007]

When did you send the request, as you are probably aware they enter into a default situation after 12+2 days.

[bevo]

It has gone past the 12+2 days. They only sent a couple of old statements nothing else. Had some good advice from BARFLY and I believe the next step is to send the next letter.

Are you in a similar situation?

[old_andrew2007]

Hi
I assume the letter you sent was a request (CCA) for a true copy of your properly executed agreement, enclosing the statutory Fee £1.00.
This is a link to a letter by pt2537, you will need to amend it to suit, and remove the section about an offence being committed, as this part of the CCA 1974 was deleted recently.
PT2537's CCA request against Littlewoods
Regards
Andy

[bevo]

An update. Received a letter and it says the following:

"Under the Consumer Credit Act, section 78, we are obliged to issue the following documentation, a copy of the executed credit agreement and, if the agreement has been varied, a copy of the latest Terms and Conditions and a signed statement of account.

HFC Bank has been unable to provide a photocopy of your original agreement. However, please note that in accordance with Regulation 3 of the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 we provide a copy of the executed agreement that does not include information which it is permitted to exclude such as the signatures and signature box.

I can confirm that the above account was opened on 8th May 1997 and is held in your name Miss ........ In addition HFC Bnak holds personal details which were supplied by you upon application, such as date of birth and employment details.

Whilst monthly payments on the account have not been maintained in line with the terms and conditions, the payments that have been received have been submitted by yourself and it is reasonable to conclude that you acknowledge the debt. In summary, our records confirm you have conducted the above account in a way that suggests you have a relationship with the bank. In view of this, HFC Bank holds you liable for the outstanding balance on the above account."

The enclosed document is comletely blank.

As I said before I was paying them up until June when they passed me over to Weightmans - Weightmans have sent me another letter saying they will take me to court. I am out of work at the moment. What steps should I take now?

Many thanks and regards.[/quote]

[42man]

Without the agreement they are stuffed.....you are quite within your rights to stop paying (but the ethics are up to you)....but if you do stop, they may well try and take you to court....however without the agreement the debt will be unenforceable....

You could send them this...

Dear Sirs


Thank you for your letter dated xxxxxxx the contents of which I note,

I must say that your letter is based upon many assumptions and very little fact, so let me bring to your attention a few items which I think are extremely relevant in this matter

Firstly, your comment

''Whilst monthly payments on the account have not been maintained in line with the terms and conditions, the payments that have been received have been submitted by yourself and it is reasonable to conclude that you acknowledge the debt. In summary, our records confirm you have conducted the above account in a way that suggests you have a relationship with the bank. In view of this, HFC Bank holds you liable for the outstanding balance on the above account."

This comment is highly irrelevant, the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and Statutory instrument 1983 / 1553 set out the form and content of a credit agreement , now if your client chooses to ignore this legislation and issue credit without following statutory procedure , then its hard luck on them

Please note the judgment of Sir Andrew Morritt Vice chancellor in the Court of Appeal Ruling of Wilson v First County Trust Ltd - [2001] 3 All ER 229 at paragraph 26

The creditor--by failing to ensure that he obtained a document signed by the debtor, which contained all the prescribed terms--must (in the light of the provisions in ss 65(1) and 127(3) of the 1974 Act) be taken to have made a voluntary disposition, or gift,of the loan moneys to the debtor. The creditor had chosen to part with the moneys in circumstances in which it was never entitled to have them repaid;

Also the House of Lords ruled in the same case on appeal that without a credit agreement, signed by the creditor and debtor and containing the prescribed terms under Schedule 6 column 2 of Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) the agreement is rendered unenforceable

So your comments above are completely meaningless

You have failed to provide a signed copy of the credit agreement covering this account. While It may be the case that I would have to retain any credit agreement for personal records, there is a STATUTORY DUTY imposed by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 that your client retain the original document and I also note that there is various other pieces of legislation that set out a statutory duty where document retention is involved, not least the Money Laundering Regulations, Companies Act 1985 and Inland Revenue Regulations all impose duties on your client to retain documents.

I must also point out that the Consumer Credit Act 1974 has been in force long enough for you to read and understand its implications for their business, so if you cant get it right, then that really is your problem and not mine. If you can’t produce a credit agreement signed by me, containing the prescribed terms contained in schedule 6 column 2 of the Consumer Credit Agreements Regulations 1983 then its case closed.

Further more I find that you are in breach of your duties under the Data Protection Act 1998. The absence of a credit agreement and failing to comply with S78 (1) of the CCA 1974 means that you are precluded from taking any enforcement activities.

Any attempts to suggest that you have a right to pursue this debt through the courts or any harassment will be reported to the Office of Fair Trading as a breach of their guidance on Debt Collection and as a Consumer Credit licence holder you are bound to follow that guidance and any breach may have implications upon your companies licence

To clarify, no payments will be made in regards to this account, it is clearly unenforceable at law as no agreement can be found or produced and you have confirmed in writing that you do not have a copy. Should you continue to harass me for payment I will consider legal proceedings in the XXXXXX County court for a declaration pursuant to section 142(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. please take note, I am aware of my rights in this matter and should you fail to take heed of this letter, I shall issue a letter before action compliant with the Civil Procedure Rules Pre action Protocols Para 4.3 giving you 28 days notice that legal proceedings for a declaration re s142 CCA 1974

I trust you will take note of my comments and close your file accordingly.

I require a written reply within 14 days of receipt of this letter

[bevo]

I have also received a letter from the solicitors asking for my £25 a month payment which I stopped in June when HFC passed me over to them.

Thank you for giving me advice I appreciate it.

[bevo]

Just an up date - they still cannot find a signed agreement for me. The last letter received says they are unable to resolve my complaint and will be in touch with me shortly. I did not make a complaint simply asked for signed credit agreement which they sent me which was unsigned!

[42man]

Keep us posted Bevo....looks like they don't have the agreement !!

[bevo]

I will keep you posted!

[palomino]

HFC are seriously nasty people. Go for the jugular.