Proving ID - how much personal info can new employer ask for?

[Sirensinger]

Hi all

Started a small part-time job last week, and the company is asking for an awful lot of ID, they say it's to do with new Home Office Regs regarding illegal workers,and identity theft.

They wanted: passport or birth cert. I've given full British passport. Also: Utility bill with name and address: have given that. Proof of National Ins. Number: have given P45 and payslips. Photos: given. In addition: bank statement with my address on. Here I had a problem: been getting mine online, the address online is not in the statement itself. Pay cut-off date was coming up, and I needed to get on payroll, so rushed to bank to get one printed out - no says bank, we don't give anything with addresses any more, for security, we only send them. You can order one, but it'll take a week. Aaarrgh! Get one online sez the guy in the bank head office, but had to cut n paste the address from another page. Then I couldn't fax it cos no damn printer would work - finally e-mailed it in desperation asking if it wd be accepted. Also said look, my identity's v easily checked anyway - I'm English, been a teacher working for local Adult Ed for 6 yrs, lived here all my life, have house on mortgage bla bla, I can provide contact details for anyone you want to check with, all reputable. Failing all of this, I added, I'd like you to arrange a 'sub' for me on the date I'd be paid if I'd managed to get all this stuff back to you in time, my paper statement'll be with you by then anyway, so youll have verified I'm me before you give me any money.

Sounds perfectly reasonable, I thought. So today I am told 'No can do any of it, you will just have to wait an extra two wks for your pay, till next paydate', i.e weeks away...

Well, I am skint, and fuming, so started thinking about it, and checked Home Office site for these new regs. All they say employers need to ask for is a passport - anything else is only if you can't provide that. Well, that's for the illegal working aspect. But regarding the ID theft point, some of the people employed by the company who occupy the building I'm working in said it all sounded really excessive, and advised me to watch out in case I was actually setting myself up for IdentityTheft by the company I'm working for!

I've been told 'try the HR Manager tomorrow, you never know....', cos basically I queried why they wanted all this (that was before I checked the Home Office site tho), so I'm intending to mention all the Home Office Guidance and hope I can frighten them into paying me! But still don't reeaaally know about the ID theft bit, or whether they can ask for whatever they like - I wouldve thought it was putting me at risk giving them so much personal data, does anyone know if there's any documentation to that effect?

Sorry, long-winded e-mail - so stressed I could scream, this little drama was the last straw. If nothing else, at least I've got it off me chest.....

Sirensinger I(not feeling very singy at the mo)

	Identity theft Follow this link to read the review of Lawpack's Identity Theft kit. What can you do to stop identity theft and identity fraud from happening? Written by an identity theft prevention expert.

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[elche]

There are new home office reg's but (from memory) the British passport alone satisfies those.

[Weird Al Yankovic]

No one has the right to even look at your passport, let alone make a copy of it, unless they are certain authorities such as customs or the police.

Companies like your employers are little Hitlers who have no common sense whatsoever.

The Home Office regs are meant for not employing illegals. There are plenty of other ways a company can check who you say you are but instead they take this blanket approach where everybody is considered an illegal unless you prove otherwise.

[zazen.warrior]

I was taken by surprise by the amount of id I was asked to provide when I was invited for an interview recently. In fact I decided not to attend because I couldn't produce half of it at such short notice.

I have a passport (expired) which was not acceptable, fortunately I have my original birth certificate, which they wanted also ( or quote ' the interview will not go ahead if you cannot provide this and it must be the full version')

Also proof of my NI number, an end of year tax statement, and one or two other bizarre items which I cannot even remember now.

Like the OP I bank online, operate my gas/elec/phone etc also online.

I would like to know what is required under this new legislation so I can have it to hand for next time.

Could someone please advise precisely what todays jobhunter needs to produce in the way of ID?????

I would very much appreciate some clarification

[poppynurse]

I've been with my employer for five years and had to produce all this stuff last year to prove who I was - the world's gone mad

[Mrs_Ryan]

I had a nightmare with all this stuff - I had to dispatch my mum to get a copy of my birth certificate (fortunately she had access to the local register office!)then get it sent recorded delivery to me for my interview.... and then I had to send a copy of my credit card cos the dozy idiots kept insisting that I had sent them an invoice for an EasyJet flight and it wasnt acceptable (cos I have an EasyJet branded Citi credit card!!!)
poppynurse - couldnt agree more....

[elche]

Originally Posted by Weird Al Yankovic

Companies like your employers are little Hitlers who have no common sense whatsoever.

The fault does not lie with the company at all. They are not 'little Hitlers', and in fact have lots of common sense.

Since 29th Feb 2008 an employer that employes an employee over 16 who is subject to immigration control and not entitled to undertake the work for which they are employed can be fined £10,000 per illegal worker. The company are, by asking to see your passport, merely attempting to comply with the law and protect themsleves from potential civil penalties - perfectly legal behaviour.

Originally Posted by Weird Al Yankovic

There are plenty of other ways a company can check who you say you are but instead they take this blanket approach where everybody is considered an illegal unless you prove otherwise.

The blanket approach you refer to is perfectly legal and what I would advise any employer to do. It is an attempt to ensure the employer is protected from a discrimination claim that could result if they only asked certain aplicants for a passport. 'The best way for employers to make sure that they do not discriminate is to treat all job applicants in the same way at each stage of their recruitment process.'

The Home Office specify which documents will provide the employer with the excuse and whilst the list is numerous, by far the easiest document to ask for is a passport. If you were to refuse to provide any evidence of your right to work in the UK, then an employer could, perfectly legally, withdraw a job offer.

I agree the law can seem a bit mad sometimes but this is Parliament's fault NOT your prospective empoyer's.

For further details see : http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/si...df?view=Binary

[Mrs_Ryan]

the passport thing is perfectly understandable but why should they have to see bank statements - or in my case my bank AND credit card statements? (no, its not a financial position I hold either)

Whats it got to do with them how much I owe my credit card company???

[Sirensinger]

Yes exactly! Just to remind other posters, I had already provided my passport, which I had no objection to providing at all, as well as proof of address, two photos and a P45 and payslip with my NI number - and, having looked at the Home Office Guidance, for proving I'm not an illegal worker, as a British Citizen all I need to provide is my passport - so why on earth does anyone need my bank statement (specifically one with an address) as well as all that? (Unless they're thinking of doing a bit of ID fraud themselves, that is.......!

The Metropolitan Police have some advice on their site for avoiding ID fraud- they say if possible, access your bank statements only online. And the bank won't give them out with addresses; even online there is no address in the body of the statement, for the same reason, they say. So if this is to avoid ID fraud, how come this employer is asking for something I shouldn't be giving out to all and sundry, and they say it's for the very same purpose? Something's not right somewhere!

Sirensinger

[zazen.warrior]

Today I renewed my passport at a cost of £75.00 (including secure delivery) plus £4.00 for the photos this at a time when I can least afford such things and when I have no intention of travelling on it any time soon.

BTW I have used my medical card as id quite successfully when collecting parcels from the sorting office, would this also be acceptable to an employer?

[Weird Al Yankovic]

Originally Posted by elche

The fault does not lie with the company at all.
The company are at fault as they are interpreting a legislation that is meant to deal with illegal workers incorrectly just to simply indemnify themselves from a potential race discrimination case.

That is not common sense, it is a lazy approach because, initially, they will consider every job applicant an illegal and, secondly, put a requirement on UK citizens to produce needless amounts of ID when there is no actual legal obligation for any UK citizen to produce anything to work in their own country.

They are not 'little Hitlers', and in fact have lots of common sense.

As above, it is lazy and lacks any common sense whatsoever.

This pathetic approach by companies effectively means the majority of UK citizens have to be part of an ID scheme just to get work.

The UK has no ID scheme yet it does if one wishes to work!

Hitler also ignored civil rights and imposed his own so my description is accurate.


Since 29th Feb 2008 an employer that employes an employee over 16 who is subject to immigration control and not entitled to undertake the work for which they are employed can be fined £10,000 per illegal worker. The company are, by asking to see your passport, merely attempting to comply with the law and protect themsleves from potential civil penalties - perfectly legal behaviour.

Can you not read what you have posted here? It is meant for illegals not for UK citizens to go to bloody work!

Yes, they are protecting themselves whilst at the same time imposing an ID scheme on the British workforce.

You are missing the point, again.

And very few employers have any right to ask to see your passport anyway.



The blanket approach you refer to is perfectly legal and what I would advise any employer to do. It is an attempt to ensure the employer is protected from a discrimination claim that could result if they only asked certain aplicants for a passport. 'The best way for employers to make sure that they do not discriminate is to treat all job applicants in the same way at each stage of their recruitment process.'

Again, it is for protection of the employer. Why should a UK citizen be subject to this when there is no legislation required that they be obliged to do so?

The Home Office specify which documents will provide the employer with the excuse and whilst the list is numerous, by far the easiest document to ask for is a passport. If you were to refuse to provide any evidence of your right to work in the UK, then an employer could, perfectly legally, withdraw a job offer.

By simply asking the question of entitlement to work in the UK, reading the job application and using common sense and judgment is enough.



I agree the law can seem a bit mad sometimes but this is Parliament's fault NOT your prospective empoyer's.

The last job application I was successful in, very recently, the employer talked to me and read my application form with me and wrote to my references.

He used judgment and common sense NOT a demand to see my passport.

Guidlines are just that, they do not mean they have to be literal.

For further details see : http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/si...df?view=Binary

...

[Weird Al Yankovic]

Originally Posted by elche

If you were to refuse to provide any evidence of your right to work in the UK, then an employer could, perfectly legally, withdraw a job offer.

It could be perfectly feasable for an individual to have no other form of ID other than a passport.

Now if that individual was to go for a job flipping burgers at a franchise of Burger King, what legal right has the franchisee of that burger bar got to look at anybody's passport?

[MrShed]

Sorry WAY but you are wrong on this one IMO.

How can the company be interpreting the legislation wrong? If it is a "lazy" way - what other/better way of checking the legal status of a potential employee is there? It is very easy saying it is the WRONG way to do it, quite another to come up with a better one...?

Also, the very simple point is that if they do not produce a passport at the potential employers behest, then the employer can refuse to give a job. Unfair, or not unfair, that is quite simply the case no matter which way you look at it.

Fully agree with elche.

Data/privacy/security scaremongering Britain as usual here I think....

[ErikaPNP]

Just my tuppence worth.....

I don't have a passport and have no intention of obtaining one at cost, as I have never been, nor plan to go abroad. If an employer insists on one then surely they should meet the cost as they do in the case of obtaining enhanced disclosures. If I had a passport, I'd happily produce it but I would not be in the least bit happy paying for something I neither want nor need when there are other reasonable means of proving I am and always have been british, and legal to work here.

I would have no issue providing my birth cert, any P45 for NI number purposes but a bank statement? No way. I would find that incredibly intrusive. If a prospective employer wanted evidence of my address, I'd provide anything they like, even a bank statement, but with the transactions blanked out. I'd happily produce it if my transactions had anything to do with the job I was applying for, or if I was applying for financial assistance, but as far as I am aware an employer has no need nor right to know the inns and outs of my finances. My personal financial affairs are nobody's business but my own.

That is only my opinion.

[elche]

Originally Posted by MrShed

Sorry WAY but you are wrong on this one IMO.

Also, the very simple point is that if they do not produce a passport at the potential employers behest, then the employer can refuse to give a job. Unfair, or not unfair, that is quite simply the case no matter which way you look at it.

Fully agree with elche.

Cheers MrShed nice to see someone agrees with my factual and legally sound advice.

WAY I know what I'm talking about with employment law mate and your post has so many inaccuracies I wouldn't even know where to begin!

Why don't you go away, read the Immigration, Asylum and Nationality Act 2006, and a good book on employment law and then perhaps you might be able to offer some decent advice and criticise any of mine which is inacurate.

Sorry to sound harsh but your so far off the mark on this one mate

[Weird Al Yankovic]

Originally Posted by MrShed

Sorry WAY but you are wrong on this one IMO.

How can the company be interpreting the legislation wrong? If it is a "lazy" way - what other/better way of checking the legal status of a potential employee is there? It is very easy saying it is the WRONG way to do it, quite another to come up with a better one...?

Ok Mrshed, but how on earth were people hired previously down the years?
By checking the application? Simply asking questions? Checking on references? etc etc

Also, the very simple point is that if they do not produce a passport at the potential employers behest, then the employer can refuse to give a job. Unfair, or not unfair, that is quite simply the case no matter which way you look at it.

Fully agree with elche.

Data/privacy/security scaremongering Britain as usual here I think....

Yes, I am dead against this intrusive behaviour as there is no other reason for it than just to prevent a potential employer being branded racist.

Why should some dead end employer who runs a tin pot outfit get to keep my personal details including passport details, that they have no legal obligation to store in any case, just to prove I can work in the UK when the legislation is meant for illegals?

It's ID Britain via the backdoor!

[MrShed]

Ok Mrshed, but how on earth were people hired previously down the years?
By checking the application? Simply asking questions? Checking on references? etc etc

So because we have ALWAYS done something one way, we should never change?

Personally, I would class ANY form of reference taking without verifying identification as a) lax at best, and b) a complete waste of time, as without verification of ID, the reference could be about ANYONE.

Yes, I am dead against this intrusive behaviour as there is no other reason for it than just to prevent a potential employer being branded racist.

Wrong, but pretty important reason none the less. The more important reasons would be twofold:
- To ensure they are adhering to their LEGAL obligations not to employ illegal immigrants
- To ensure the identity of a potential employee before allowing them full access to your company data, staff, assets etc

Fair enough, disagree - but why should an employer give you a job, and put you in a potentially very damaging position for them (if you are dishonest), with no recognised bone fide proof of ID, therefore preventing ANY form of recourse?

I dont understand "ID Britain by the backdoor" - you seem to think that because ID cards have not been introduced we never have any requirement, nor do we, to EVER verify our identity - clearly wrong.

More appropriate comment would be "ID Britain - as it has been for decades, and will continue to be, without ONE standardised form of ID"

[MrShed]

Out of interest, do you have such an issue with a driving licence? If so, how do you propose we identify ourselves - a letter from our parents perhaps? If not, why - it is just as personal a form of ID as a passport in almost every way.

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[Weird Al Yankovic]

Originally Posted by elche

Cheers MrShed nice to see someone agrees with my factual and legally sound advice. It's rubbish.

WAY I know what I'm talking about with employment law mate and your post has so many inaccuracies I wouldn't even know where to begin!

Oh right, like the time you were so stubborn you would not eat humble pie with a previous load of waffle you came out with on another thread!

Why don't you go away, read the Immigration, Asylum and Nationality Act 2006, and a good book on employment law and then perhaps you might be able to offer some decent advice and criticise any of mine which is inacurate.

I have read it but the difference between you and I is that I understand it.

Point me to the relevant section that legislates that a UK citizen has to produce any form of ID to work in the UK, ok?

What a card you are!

[MrShed]

Also, interested in your definition of "intrusive" - in what way is seeing a passport intrusive? They get your name, DOB, address.....and what else? Nothing that you wouldnt have to give them anyway.