Salary Overpayment

[Kevvym]

Hello

I am writing on here as I would like to know if anyone could help me with an issue that has arisen with my former employer and also happens to be my bank.

I arrived back from holiday on the 7th of July to find a letter on my door step saying that i had been over paid and that they would be recovering the full amount (£325) on the wednesday, now having just come back from holiday I can assure you i am not alone in saying that my account had virtually no money in it.

My first call was to the HR department who told me i would have to go to my local branch and that they would be taking all the money on wednesday regardless, and therefore the branch would have to refund me out of one of there accounts and i would have to make an agreement with them on how much to pay back each month. its worth noting at this point that i have never signed anything saying they can debit me overpayments.

Monday (7/07/0 i went to the branch in the afternoon and they confrimed they would have to sort it out and they would ring me in an hour or so to confirm what needed to be done. this call happenned to me on my mobile and confirmed to them that i could pay £25 a month as i am now earning less and the lady dealing with it said she would send it to regional offices the next day for approval and she would ring me when she knew what they had said.

Anyway to cut a very long story short i had heard nothing by thursday and they took the money wednesday and took me over my overdraft limit. I rang telephone banking thursday evening to log the complaint and then again friday saying i needed to speak to the person at the branch. i was made aware this wouldnt happen untill monday.

On monday i recieved a TEXT from the member of staff telling me that she had left me a voicemail on wednesday and that they were not happy to agree to £25 a month, being sure i have never recieved such a voicemail i rang my network provider and they have confirmed i have recieved no voicemails or dialed my voicemail in the last 2 weeks! Since monday i have left messages with telephone banking (because the branch number always diverts to there) everyday telling them i need to get this sorted as my bills are due out at the end of this week and i only have just enough money to pay them but because my account is in excess my loan, mobile phone bill etc will bounce tomorrow.

i would love to know my rights and where i stand on all of this as this could seriously damage my credit file and the bank has already said they will charge me £30 for the payment being made and the funds not being there and £28 for going over my overdraft, it all just seems very unfair to me because had i not worked for the bank then they would never have been able just to go into my account like that.

[Gaz74205]

complete opinion on my part, but i really doubt they are allowed to remove money from your account without your permission.

[Kevvym]

just to update you, there now sending me around the houses as there saying that the authority must have come from somewhere but they do not know where!

really do not know where to go with this and they have reject my offer to make any payments out of hand, there saying tough they have it now and thatts the end of it.

[OoopNorth]

There's not many details here, ie are/were you paid by BACS ? How was the money taken from the ban account ?

It is my understanding that clawback of overpayments is allowed through BACS on the same day, an overpayment is known about on the days. Clawback is allowed but multiple entries will appear on the account.

As this isn't the same day then permission is needed to take the money from the bank. Do you have a direct debit with your ex-employer ? If so they could use this method to take money but it has to be agreed with you and can be reclaimed using the direct debit imdemnity scheme.

If it's not a direct debit then approach your bank dispute the transaction and have the money returned. You cna then leave it until the bank gets the money back from your ex-employer and then restart your negotiations for repayment.

[OoopNorth]

Apologies rubbish typing/spelling. Include the charges levied on your bank account in the new negotiation

[Kevvym]

the trouble is my bank is my former employer, they took it as a manual entry just using internal systems that can be used to move money around which require no signatures from customers. THis is normally only used for moving money around where we need to in a hurry because of bank error or something similar or in most cases only for moving between the bank own internal suspense accounts.

i was paid by BACS on the 18th April and they took the money on the 09th July.

my point to my old employer aka the bank is that no other company would have been able to do this without my signature or authority and in my opinion it seems a complete abuse of power.

[OoopNorth]

I did assume your ex-employer would be a bank. There's nothing specific in the Banking Code to cover what authorisation is needed for withdrawals. There may be something in the T&Cs of operating the account. Formally dispute the transaction there seems little other option.

[Sidewinder]

When did you actually leave this employment? I would say that any contractual agreement which may have existed, whereby as an employer the bank could dip into the account at will in such circumstances, ended as soon as you left their employ. For them to go into what would, by now, be a private bank account and remove money without authority would seem at the very least a scandalous and gross abuse of position, and at best a case of theft.

I would check the contract of employment with regard to what they can and cannot do with your account (I assume that it was a condition of employment that you had an account 'in house') and then consider a Letter Before Action demanding the immediate transfer of the funds back into the account whilst the matter is resolved. You will also hold them responsible for any and all unlawful charges added to the account as a result of their actions and require details of the authority under which they are able to take this money without written agreement.

[Kevvym]

thank you, that will help, i finished employment on the 21st April, i have checked my old contract as well and there is nothing in there about them being able to withdraw over payments when your either there or once you have left. This is why normally they will ask you to sign something when you leave saying they can withdraw any over payment.

your right i did have to bank there because i worked there and i will right a letter in asking although this gives me little help in the short term in terms of paying the bills!

is there any particular legislation or terms that i need to put in such a letter or anywhere where i could get a good example?

[Sidewinder]

Firstly, you need to put things in writing as a matter of urgency. They have already given you the runaround by phone (and allegedly text messages), neither of which will give you a paper trail should this need to be escalated.

You need to raise a formal complaint to the HR department and copied to the highest authority at the branch where you were formally employed demanding to know on whose authority the money was taken from your account, and where in writing the bank have your permission to do this. Whilst you would be agreeable to discuss repayment of any alleged overpayment (having had the opportunity to verify that in fact money is owed to the bank), you consider their actions to be an abuse of their position, and in the absence of your written authority, unlawful. You are aware that whilst the Employment Rights Act 1996 entitles an employer to recover salary overpayments by deductions from future salary, it makes no provision to do so directly from a bank account, nor does it permit an ex-employer to recover overpayments from ex-employees in this manner. After any employment relationship has ended, any other employer would need to discuss repayment with the former employee and issue proceedings if neccessary. The fact that the bank has access to and an ability to take funds from what is now a private bank account is, you consider, a gross abuse of power and procedure. Having left your employment with the bank three months ago, you also consider that to still be using your personal data after this time might also be considered an abuse of the Data Protection Act as your bank account details have no relevance to the storage of personnel files which they need to keep. Finally you would like to know how the bank are able to take an amount in excess of the available funds without firstly agreeing an overdraft facility, and then to unlawfully enrich themselves by levying charges as a result of their actions, not yours through an abuse of the banking facility. In the circumstances you require that the money is replaced in your account pending a proper discussion as to the legitimacy of their claim, and if agreed as to the amount of overpayment, a mutually acceptable repayment arrangement. You also require that any charges applied to your account to date are also credited back to your account and no further charges applied until such time as this matter is resolved. Their behaviour has caused you financial hardship, embarrassment, stress and anxiety and if they refuse to rectify the situation you are prepared to take further advice as to the legitimacy of their actions.

I really don't know how 'normal' this type of behaviour is, but this seems to me a particularly underhand way of doing things and I would go for them with all guns blazing if you are certain that you haven't given permission for them to just take money from the account at will.

[tsddl1]

Hi was wondering if anyone can help me...

I've worked for my employer since the beginning of Sept 07.
I applied for SMP in March and was told i missed out on qualifying by 5 days and was told i could apply for MA through jobcentre.

I went on maternity leave in may and recieved approx 1100 in thats months pay (on the day i usually got paid)- assuming this muct have been my MA and also holiday pay and other pay I was owed from company.

I continued to be paid by my employer every month, but have now also been recieving MA. I have put all the money that my employer as paid me into a savings account and used my MA as usual.

I was told by someone an employer only has 3 months to claim back overpayment (this isnt exactly important as the money is all there anway, should the claim it back)... just wondering if this is true??

Who is in error, and how should I go about resolving this, I am really confused and would appreciate any suggestions.

Many thanks.

[elche]

Originally Posted by tsddl1

I was told by someone an employer only has 3 months to claim back overpayment (this isnt exactly important as the money is all there anway, should the claim it back)... just wondering if this is true??
Many thanks.

No this is not true, provided you are still employed employer can recover overpayments of wages from you from future wages subject to your potential defence of estoppel.

If you leave employment after your mat leave then they may consider civil recovery proceedings.

You will probably have to pay the money back, so don't spend it.