days holiday problem

[hoopsta]

hi im a Newbie Here

My prob is i took a days holiday (given to me no problem)

now work are try to give me a warning for not going to work at 0100 (i had been to a pre wedding party and had a few beers)

just really wanted to know if there is a minimum amount of hours after a holiday you have to return to work or would you have to start at say midnight the following day

i you catch my drift

cheers in advance

[Sidewinder]

Welcome!

Interesting problem. Most people normally assume that if you book a day's holiday then that would be from 0001 to 0000 on a given day, however it is more the case that an employee's day off counts as the shift which would normally be worked on a particular day - what you have been given is paid leave from that day's working day - the rest of the day is your own time.

Therefore if your normal shift is, for example 0100 to 1000 each day or on that particular rota, then it is not unreasonable to expect that you should be fit for work at 0100 the following morning. A day's holiday counts as one day of a normal working pattern, so employees must reappear at their normal or agreed start time on the first shift after the leave.

Did you not know that you were due into work at 0100 on the day you returned? If so then I daresay that your employer would say that you should have either arranged 2 days off so that you were fit to return, or alternatively work your shift, attend the party that evening and the day's holiday should have been used to get over it!

just really wanted to know if there is a minimum amount of hours after a holiday you have to return to work or would you have to start at say midnight the following day

Depends on what your normal shift is. If you work 0100-0900 (for example) then it is those hours which you had as holiday. The Working Time Directive says that you have to have at least 8 hours between working days so using these hours as an example, you would have had 16 hours break. Even if you work a 12 hour shift 0100-1300 then you would still have 12 hours from the end of your holiday to the start of your next shift - within the legal requirement.

What about the warning itself? Have your employers followed correct disciplinary procedure?

[hoopsta]

cheers for the reply sidewinder

well i dont actually have a set shift for work im a Refrigeration engineer so we travel alot ..my hours are all over the place

i was due be picked up for work at around 1400 on the 16th(today)

i got informed of a change in work (on the 15th) for the following day at 2000 hours (by text !!) which i did not pick it up till this morning

Got phone call off the boss at 1000 saying i need to come into the office for a verbal warning due to not turning up for work.....i tried to talk to him saying it was unreasonable to expect some to work 1 hour after there day off had finished and that they had change the shift with only 5 hours notice..
im at a bit of a loss

I guess they are following correct disciplinary procedure

just one other question are people allowed to work a 24 hour shift

EG have a work colleague who drives the van...he started at 0100 yesterday morn drove for 4 hours to site then worked for 15/16 on site then drove the 4 hours home...

Is that legal????

[Sidewinder]

Originally Posted by hoopsta

cheers for the reply sidewinder

well i dont actually have a set shift for work im a Refrigeration engineer so we travel alot ..my hours are all over the place

That changes things very slightly in that the WTD does not fully apply

i was due be picked up for work at around 1400 on the 16th(today)

i got informed of a change in work (on the 15th) for the following day at 2000 hours (by text !!) which i did not pick it up till this morning

How normal is that your hours are changed at such short notice? In any case I would say that it is not at all reasonable to receive a change in shift notified by text on a pre-arranged day off unless this is acceptable by contract or common practice. Is the phone provided by the business and are you required to carry whilst it on holiday? Is there any clause in your contract which requires you to be available at XX minutes/hours notice?

Got phone call off the boss at 1000 saying i need to come into the office for a verbal warning due to not turning up for work.....i tried to talk to him saying it was unreasonable to expect some to work 1 hour after there day off had finished and that they had change the shift with only 5 hours notice..
im at a bit of a loss

I guess they are following correct disciplinary procedure

If the above is what happened then no they are not! Correct disciplinary procedure is to provide you with written details of what you are supposed to have done wrong, notify you of a date for a meeting which gives a suitable period of time to gather facts, and give you the right to have a colleague or TU rep present at that meeting. You need to be able to argue (as appropriate) that you were not notified of the change in shift in sufficient time or in an adequate enough manner for you to have been in a position to comply.

just one other question are people allowed to work a 24 hour shift

EG have a work colleague who drives the van...he started at 0100 yesterday morn drove for 4 hours to site then worked for 15/16 on site then drove the 4 hours home...

Is that legal????

I would say that this is an accident waiting to happen and should not be expected of any employee. If there was a likelihood that this was going to happen then the vehicle should have been double crewed, or provision made for an overnight stay. If this is a regular event then it would be covered by Heath & Safety laws rather than working hours regulations. Due to the nature of your work however, normal entitlements for breaks and rest periods under the Working Time Directive are not applicable, although your colleague must be permitted compensatory rest - ie time off on another shift to make up for the lack of breaks on that day. Everybody should be permitted at least 90 hours of rest in a week, averaged if neccessary to cope with fluctuating work patterns.

I would pursue this with your boss. You were on holiday so did not receive the text message until after you were supposed to have been at work. Also, the disciplinary procedure has been incorrectly applied.

Are you in a Union? If so, seek their advice too. I can't see that they can make a warning stick unless you have actually breached a condition of your employment.