CRB, to accept a caution or not

[poppynurse]

My daughter (16) is on bail She was at a so called friends house and this friend ordered burgers and pizzas to be delivered. My daughter answered the door to the delivery man and he passed her the food, she asked the householder for the money and was told to shut the door, realising there was a problem she handed the food to the friend and walked upstairs, the friend shut the door on the delivery man. He called the police.

Police arrived by which point the friend had hidden in the attic, daughter and another person were arrested. She has to return to the police station to answer bail and they have said that she will most likely be given a caution.

I am concerned that a caution will affect her employment chances in the future if she has to have a CRB check. Should she refuse a caution and tell them to prosecute if they think they have enough evidence? I can't see how she can be found guilty as the friend ordered the food and thus entered into the contract, surely she's the one who should be in trouble???

[Weird Al Yankovic]

Personally I'd refuse a caution and let the matter proceed, if indeed it would in any case, with the circumstances described.

[Sidewinder]

I agree entirely. Your daughter is innocent, so why accept something which could affect her job prospects or ability to enter the USA (should she want to) for the rest of her life without fighting it?

Providing that in the (unlikely) event that this would proceed she would be prepared to swear to what actually happened and even implicate whoever did order the food and chose not to pay for it, then I would say to refuse the caution and elect for a hearing.

[poppynurse]

That was my feeling. She has already told the police what happened when they interviewed her but they said she will get caution or warning - not sure what the difference is?

[Weird Al Yankovic]

Accept neither, both are recordable and may show up on a CRB in the future, probably certainly on an Enhanced Disclosure.

Your daughter is still too young to know what career she would want to do at, say, at the age of 21. Things change in life.

And it appears this would be an admission of theft.

However, I would argue that had I been invited to a take away meal at a friends house but they then proceeded to receive the meal, slam the door then hide in the attic, the friends action's were bizarre and your daughter accepts no responsibility for such a strange & unpredictable event.

But expect not to be friends again!

[MrShed]

I think there are two points here:

- Is this case ever likely to progress?
- If it does, who is liable?

I think the answer to the first is "NO".

The answer to the second is far less clear cut IMO (sorry, just playing devils advocate here). Your daughter is ultimately the one who deprived them of the item. If she was shutting the door as instructed to avoid paying, she should have given the food back as a bare minimum. I think there would be a POTENTIAL case for your daughter and the friend to be joint defendants.

I would strongly(and strongly strongly) advise to speak to a solicitor before refusing the offer of a caution. I am not a criminal lawyer, and by all accounts not many people on these forums are.

BTW PN, not saying I agree with what I have just said - I'm just trying to highlight the point that the case is not as clear cut as it would at first appear.

[Hobbie]

Don't accept the caution, let it go through the process, and the CPS may even drop the charge if no evidence is offered, or other evidence comes to light.

[Zamzara]

What is the alleged offence?

[Weird Al Yankovic]

Originally Posted by Zamzara

What is the alleged offence?

Theft?

[Hobbie]

I think more so it will be bilking... (Which is theft, just more precise to the offence)

But either way it is a dishonesty offence, and if your daughter accepts a caution, which would be silly to accept guilt on something when she is not guilty, dishonesty offences can affect a number of employment oppertunities.

My best advice on this, would be to not accept the caution (simply don't admit the offence as to receive a caution you need to accept guilt) the police will then need to seek CPS guidence for charging, the CPS lawyer will then review all evidence available including statements obtained, transcripts of interview (takes them about 10 minutes!) and then decide if .....

a) Enough evidence is in place to obtain a successful proseuction.
and;
b) It is in the public interest to proceed.

May have all the evidence available, but if it isn't in the public interest then CPS won't wish to continue with it and it gets NFA'd, and thats the end of it.

But never accept guilt on something just for the easy option out, it has the potential to effect her for the rest of her life depending on what job and career she would like to aim for.

[MrShed]

But Hobbie, if they ARE guilty(which there is a good chance in this case they are), then surely they should mitigate the damage?

Either way, I strongly feel the only answer to this question is that you must consult a solicitor prior to making a decision.

[Hobbie]

Of course, and that is absolutely correct, we're just offering informal advice, and should consult with a solicitor before acting on any actions concerning allegations of a criminal nature.

[Zamzara]

Originally Posted by Weird Al Yankovic

Theft?

I realise what the possibilities are: I was hoping the OP would clarify.

[poppynurse]

The police have not said what the charge will be, I gather they were going to interview the friend when they found her. They just said they will most likely give her a warning or caution.

[RedVixen]

Hi I used to co ordinate all the CRB checks for a major University for medical and teaching students

The checks normally look back 5 years but on an enhanced one there is a section where other offenses can be included if the head honcho thinks its relevant - remember all CRB checks have to state for what position the individual is being considered for.

Most places will have separate 'fitness to practice' procedures in place to deal with any checks that come back with something on - in many cases petty concerns such as this from when someone is young are ignored so even if it does show up it isn't the end of the world - most CRB checks are done to assess suitability to work with Children and vulnerable adults so offences or behaviours that are a specific concern to these areas is what they are looking for are what they are looking for

Although you daughter may have been innocent of intent by doing what her friend said for what ever reason - makes her partially responsible - we all make mistakes like that as we are growing up your daughter is in some ways unfortunate the police got involved

[RedVixen]

Basically it is not necessarily the end of the world if it does show up on a CRB check

[Sidewinder]

However if she wanted to work in Finance, or Banking, or (in some cases) Insurance or a number of other roles where a caution for 'Theft' might be considered relevant it might well be the end of a career in those particular industries. The CRB will not (as far as I know) give full details of what led to the caution, it will just list the offence and date.

I appreciate that each case should be assessed on merit and individual circumstances, but in today's world, sadly this is seldom the case, and if two candidates were separated only by the fact that one had accepted a caution for theft it is odds on that the one with a clean CRB would get the job. Yes the OP's daughter might have been unwittingly a part of an act of theft, but would she really want to be in a position where she would have to explain the circumstances when trying to get a job? Remember that to accept a caution is an admission of guilt - if there is a possibility that if the caution is refused and the CPS decide that there is insufficient evidence to proceed, then her record stays clean (and hopefully she would still have learned a lesson from the lucky escape in exactly the same way as being cautioned).