misconduct/gross misconduct

[conncat]

Hi,
this might be a little long,
I am the union rep (I work in education) , since i became rep I was asked to rpresent a member in a gross misconduct case, to which the member got dismissed & we are awaiting appeal.
During this time I was as I can only descibe as being picked on by management, for every little thing but nothing substantial.
Then they said they were investigating me for misconduct due to non- attendance of a course, the course in question I had previously attended but had to miss the last couple of weeks due to bereavement, I asked to defer the course & was given permission to do this, When I re- attended the course I came to an arrangement with my tutor that the topics I had already covered I could use as study time.
I had an investigation hearing , to which I provided all relevant documentation to prove that I had attended the course.
That meeting was 5 weeks ago, & I was told the decision would be within 20days.I heard no more.
Today I have now been given another letter for gross misconduct, stating that I failed to finish a course that i attended 6 years ago, & therefore I am in a position at work that was according to the course.
I applied for the position whilst I was still attending the course, as it was advertised in the middle of my course.
This was 6 years ago & to be honest don't have much info or remember much information relating to this, as I have attended other courses since then.
Just wondering if anyone can give any advice
This has only happened since becoming a union rep.
conncat

[tezzah]

You should get the next level rep involved to help you, sounds a bit odd to me.

[PI Guy]

Very odd indeed. Start keeping a diary and consider a grievance. This is starting to sound like they want to get rid of you.

[conncat]

thanks for replying
Yeh they do want to get rid of me, they have even asked members of staff to monitor me without my knowledge, but the staff they have asked to do this have come and told me.
They lost my personnel file.
so many incidents, I have noted everything down.
As for the course 6 years ago I did complete the course, but they are saying I have given false information, but I have never submitted any false documents relating to the course, or a certificate, and surley, the course providers would've let my employers know when i had finished the course.
I hate that people are snooping around behind my back, & not upfront to ask me.
conncat

[Hobbie]

Agree, Keep a diary/log of everything, people who speak to you about this, dates/times, the subject of the conversation. No matter how unsuspicious it may seem.

[cal37]

Your employers are standing on very shaky ground. To do this sort of thing to a union rep can be looked upon as discrimination because of his/her duties as a rep and the company can find themselves in very hot water.

Get your area rep involved ASAP, put a grievance in and state in it that you believe you are being picked on because of your status as the union rep.Do this tomorrow do not delay !!!!
Believe me, after your area rep gets involved and the grievance hearing, this silly stuff will stop, as you do not have to prove the discrimination, just have to show it’s likely.

[conncat]

Thanks cal,
I have spoken to my area rep & we are meeting up tomorrow.
They havn't even acknowledged the original investigation that took place on 30th April & was supposed to be concluded in 20 days from that date, this I believe was because they knew it was a load of rubbish, but they should still have let me know the outcome.
So now they say this new investigation has come to light from the previous investigation.
Am I right that as they didn,t acknowledge the previous investigation within the time scale this shouldn't really uphold.
sorry hope that all makes sense.

[PI Guy]

Originally Posted by conncat

Thanks cal,
I have spoken to my area rep & we are meeting up tomorrow.
They havn't even acknowledged the original investigation that took place on 30th April & was supposed to be concluded in 20 days from that date, this I believe was because they knew it was a load of rubbish, but they should still have let me know the outcome.
So now they say this new investigation has come to light from the previous investigation.
Am I right that as they didn,t acknowledge the previous investigation within the time scale this shouldn't really uphold.
sorry hope that all makes sense.

That will depend on the companies disciplinary procedures. read them carefully, your answers will be there.

[prushton]

Hi, I am a shop steward and I have just read your thread regarding misconduct / gross misconduct. Its clear that your company are victimising you , they seem to be on a fishing trip and are trying to get as much as they can to use against you in future disciplinary proceedings.

Firstly, check your contract of employment , especially the company,s disciplinary proceedures. These will set out the process to be followed in the event of disciplinary action. They will set out the time frame for initial investigations and will say how long before the company should get back to you regarding the outcome of the initial investigations.

I dont know what yours will say, but 20 days to get back to you and inform you of the outcome of the investigations is a hell of a long time, usually its within 7 days. Check you disciplinary proceedures and if they have not followed them, then submit a grievance straight away. This will help you should you end up in an industrial tribunal, any dismissal where the company has not followed the basic statutory disciplinary proceedures as laid out by ACAS will be ruled unfair and will result in the company paying you compensation at a level determined by the tribunal.


Your companys disciplinary procedures should set out the various levels of disciplinary sanctions ie verbal,1st written, final written etc and the circumstances that would warrant such sanctions including a few examples of what instances are regarded as misconduct / gross misconduct. They will usually say something along the lines of " This list is not exhaustive "
Typical instances usually regarded as gross misconduct are theft, mis-appropriation of company funds , making false expenses claimns etc all could lead to instant dismissal without notice.

The most important thing for you to know is : for something to be classed as gross misconduct it must be as a result of an intentional act ie you chose to make a false expenses claim , you took money from the works petty cash box etc.

The circumstances that you describe regarding your course are hardly an attempt to deceive or to misrepresent the facts. Surely the company were aware that you were not atending the course as a result of the bereavement, and you of course told the course tutor that you could not attend the course as a result of this bereavement.

One question springs to mind, did your employers at the time you were taken on know you hadnt completed the course? and did you complete the course prior to the commencement of your employment with them.

I f they did know or you notified them of the circumstances , then you have no case to answer. I would contact your nearest union offices and speak to a full time officer ( make an appointment to see one)and get him to take up your case. He can attend disciplinary meetings with you when dealing with the company and will be able to help enormously.

In the meantime, take a look at the ACAS web site WWW.ACAS.ORG.UK AND LOOK FOR LINKS TO ACAS DISCIPLINARY AND GRIEVANCE PROCEEDURES. They will tell you what the statutory minimium disciplinary & grievance proceedures your company should be following.

I hope you will find this helpful.

P.S keep notes of everything that has happened, will the people who have been asked to spy on you by your employers give a statement? all these things will help( if they do dismiss you) in an industrial tribunal. Lastly dont worry but get a full time union officer to help you a.s.a.p

[conncat]

I applied for my current position whilst still on the course, so there was always a likely hood that I might fail, the job was advertised externley and intertney and I was an internal applicant, The management team was also different then. They offered me the job, as far as I was concerned I submitted what I needed to submitt to my course tutor and the course always kept my employers infomed throughout the course as to any iformation they needed about assessments. Basically that was it & 5 1/2 years later they throw this at me, also its hard to remember back 6/5 years I haven't even kept any info regarding the course as it was so long ago. I have never submitted any documents to my employer regarding the course or certificates, as for infomation on my application form at the time, I would most probably have put that I was attending the course. They gave me the post knowing I was still doing the course, I then went about my duties as per job description for the last 5 1/2 years, even though they have been digging me out over every thing.
hope that makes sense.

[prushton]

clearly, they were aware of the situation prior to the commencement of your employment. They are fishing for dirt, and if this is all they have found then they do not have much of a case.

I f you took this to a tribunal, they would see that they are picking on you, make sure that you take union representation with you to all disciplinary proceedings and make sure that minutes are taken and ask for a copy of those minutes ( you are entitled to a copy and they cannot refuse, but make sure you read them and agree to their content, both parties should then sign to say they agree the minutes)

This will be useful in the future. Also ask for a copy of your personnel file, you have a right to have one, this may help in providing evidence to support your case. good luck !

[conncat]

I've been in with my union rep most of the day, & they are putting in a victimisation claim against them.
As for my personnel file, they said they lost it last year, so my rep has requested to see the file they have now.
They were fully aware that I was still attending the course, when I applied for the position, as I was already working there.
It was never said to me that the position was on the basis that I finish the course or pass, so I started the new position before finishing the course.
Also it was an entirely different management at that time.
So as far as I was concerned every thing was ok with them, but that was 5 1/2 years ago.

[prushton]

Great, looks like your reps on the ball, obtain a copy of your companys bullying and harassment policy if it has one and make sure that you follow the process exactly, you should submit a seperate grievance regarding victimization by this manager. Your rep will help you submit a grievance letter, it should clearly state that this is a grievance regarding victimization of yourself by this manager.

The beauty of this is that it has to be dealt with , you may request a meeting with your line manager to resolve this issue, if your line manager fails to deal with it to your satisfaction then you take it to the next level of management, believe me when the manager who is bullying you has to account for his actions to his boss , it will stop and will send a clear message to him that his behaviour is unacceptable.

[conncat]

thanks for your great answers
just wondering, should my investigation meeting still go ahead?
also the hardest part is trying to get statements from other staff, as they are afraid it means they could be picked on, which is understandable.
The harrassment is actually coming from senior management it self (I work in a school).

[vonnie32]

I can empathise with your situation conncat - I was at the solicitors the other day about my own case and from what the solicitor told me this sounds like a case of bullying.

Hope it all gets resolved soon
Best wishes
Yvonne

[cal37]

Conncat, take advice from your full time rep only, he knows the case, he knows you and he knows your employers.

[conncat]

Thanks everyone for your valuable advice, meeting union rep tomorrow & member of management, general feelings are that this is harrassment.

[prushton]

Take a look at this, its advice from a professional HR company to companies about Bullying and harassment of employees by employees. It warns that a new case Majrowski v Guy’s and St Thomas’ NHS Trust which went to the house of lords and