Withdrawal of job offer

[juffery]

Last week I was offered a job within the company I work for - a significant step up. I spoke to my new boss on Friday and mentioned that I was helping out with fitting my sisters bathroom - in all honesty I was driving a van but wanting to sound impressive said this even though I wouldn't know how to begin fitting a bathroom. I was off sick at the time with a chest infection.

I then got called through yesterday and confronted about this. I explained that whilst I was fit enough to drive a van, there was no way I was fit enough to perform my work duties. The outcome was the job offer was withdrawn.

I guess I probably know the answer to this, but do I have any comeback here?

[old_andrew2007]

Hi

I'm no expert but I think that from a moral point of view they are being harsh even when ill I would expect a drive to shops or collect children
for example is not unreasonable,
I expect that legally they can and have withdrawn the offer, its a hard lesson, I always keep my own counsel, sometimes you appear aloof but so what.

Sorry I not much help

Andy

[juffery]

That's pretty much what I thought. What gets me is that it was that she felt what I did was morally wrong - that was the phrase she used several time. B@@@h!!

[poppynurse]

It's unfortunate that you told them you were fitting a bathroom whilst off sick - you can't blame them for thinking that if you are fit to do that you are fit to work, and owning up that you were just driving the van and hence had lied to your new boss - oh dear....
I'm afraid if I was your boss I would also be saying you were morally wrong for either throwing an unecessary sickie and lying when challenged - sorry.

[bed32]

Do you actually have a written job offer?

Withdrawing the offer could probably be regarded as disciplinary action so you could appeal the decision through whatever process your company gives you. It is possible that if you are given a chance to explain yourself in front of somebody else then they may be more sympathetic. However that might also make you even more unpopular.

Or you could try a lot of grovelling to your ex-new-boss.

I don't think anyone is going to say that they weren't within their rights to do what they did so it is really a matter of appealing to their better nature. It will probably also help if you can show you take less time off sick than most others.

P.S. Did you see a doctor for the Chest Infection? In circumstances like this to have been signed off by a Doctor would help a lot

[paulgmb]

The only way to remedy this would be to firstly appeal to their better nature but if you wanted to make it formal you could take it through the companies grievance procedure.

The situation would be different if you were a candidate from outside but because you were an internal candidate there is no financial loss and you could only pursue a legal remedy if you had already taken up the position, i.e. you were actually doing the job.

Regards,

Paul.

[Weird Al Yankovic]

OP, I doubt you would get to first base with this.

Prove yourself for the future and hope your employers bear no grudges.

[juffery]

I didn't really think I had a leg to stand on. I hadn't recieved the offer in writing, I haven't had any previous time off sick since starting with the company and in previous employment my record is as near as dammit exempelary. I had seen the doctor 3 times over a fortnight regards chest infection and had a sick line. Driving a van is very differrent to my duties.

Since starting with teh company I have bend over backwards, covering shifts, swapping shifts, working Christmas Day to help out co-workers with family abroad, staying on late to make others lives easier. None of this seems to have been taken into account.

[Weird Al Yankovic]

I appreciate where you are coming from.

As hard as this may sound-so what?

If you choose to work extra hours for nothing, cut short your Xmas Day or inconvenience yourself then that is up to you.

If you feel your employer doesn't appreciate you and you feel hard done by then look for another job.

I'm sorry as I don't want to appear harsh. However, there can be a very thin line between people who have a genuine grievance and those who just want to have a moan about work.

It appears you lied to your employers, even if it was a little white lie, and they found you out.

I'd be happy to keep my job in the circumstances.

'Loss of trust' is fundemental to a working relationship and it works both ways.

[juffery]

Originally Posted by Weird Al Yankovic

I appreciate where you are coming from.

As hard as this may sound-so what?

If you choose to work extra hours for nothing, cut short your Xmas Day or inconvenience yourself then that is up to you.

If you feel your employer doesn't appreciate you and you feel hard done by then look for another job.

I'm sorry as I don't want to appear harsh. However, there can be a very thin line between people who have a genuine grievance and those who just want to have a moan about work.

It appears you lied to your employers, even if it was a little white lie, and they found you out.

I'd be happy to keep my job in the circumstances.

'Loss of trust' is fundemental to a working relationship and it works both ways.

Obviously you're entitled to your opinion, but really if you have nothing constructive to say, why bother posting? If you feel all I am doing is having a moan about work, then just leave at that and don't get involved. If you have something constructive to add then I welcome it.

[sillygirl1]

If the employer acts like this before you are employed properly you are probably better off not joining the company.

Try to get a copy of the terms and conditions of employment at the time of your next interview to see what the company are like - IMHO its a reasonable request and should help in your decision to take up employment with them.

[bed32]

Originally Posted by juffery

I didn't really think I had a leg to stand on. I hadn't recieved the offer in writing, I haven't had any previous time off sick since starting with the company and in previous employment my record is as near as dammit exempelary. I had seen the doctor 3 times over a fortnight regards chest infection and had a sick line. Driving a van is very differrent to my duties.

Since starting with teh company I have bend over backwards, covering shifts, swapping shifts, working Christmas Day to help out co-workers with family abroad, staying on late to make others lives easier. None of this seems to have been taken into account.

Why don't you write all that up in the form of an appeal against the decision not to give you the new role.

You might also add that as you had not been told about the purpose of the meeting with your boss then you did not have time to prepare your response.

If you have a reasonable company then you may get a sympathetic hearing. It certainly shouldn't do you any harm and may eventually be better than just accepting their actions.

[Chesterexpress]

Originally Posted by juffery

Obviously you're entitled to your opinion, but really if you have nothing constructive to say, why bother posting? If you feel all I am doing is having a moan about work, then just leave at that and don't get involved. If you have something constructive to add then I welcome it.

I am with weird al on this one, you were bang out of order and lied to your employer.

[juffery]

Originally Posted by Chesterexpress

I am with weird al on this one, you were bang out of order and lied to your employer.

Again, your opinion. However, I'm looking for advice and support not another kick in the teeth.
Cheers.

[Weird Al Yankovic]

Originally Posted by juffery

Obviously you're entitled to your opinion, but really if you have nothing constructive to say, why bother posting? If you feel all I am doing is having a moan about work, then just leave at that and don't get involved. If you have something constructive to add then I welcome it.

Well, I'm sorry you feel like that.

You posted a thread on a public forum and invited comments about your situation.

Had you stated that you only wish to receive replies of what you only want to read then I would not have posted.

This site has some threads about people in desperate trouble who are unable to pay their mortgage and face being homeless.

Should members just post comments like 'everything will be ok?'

Or advise that something needs to be done quickly as it is a serious situation?

I wish you no malice and I was only being honest to what you had posed in this thread.

In the circumstances I'd have been grateful to have kept my job or at least not been disciplined. I've had jobs where people have been fired for what you did.

And I did offer support-prove yourself in future to your employer and hope they bear no grudge so that you can progress upward.

It's a lesson learned.

'Experience is a harsh teacher, she tests first and offers lessons later'

Regards.

[Sidewinder]

Probably time that everybody took a step back before this deviates from the purpose of the original thread and descends into an argument. The OP has been given advice and opinion and should take all comment on board equally - as mentioned, a public forum will invariably generate a degree of critcism as well as support.

Back though to the original question raised in terms of whether the employer is entitled to do what hey have done, then probably yes, however they must justify it. Performing other activities whilst signed off sick is not neccessarily a disciplinary matter, and by implication therefore in them taking punitive action in withdrawing a promotion may constitute unfair treatment. We have all had colleagues signed off sick and yet have seen them shopping or carrying out duties to cause us to believe that their absence from work is not genuine. Without understanding precise circumstances however it is often impossible to make a 100% accurate judgement - nobody need wade in here to do likewise without knowing the full facts. An employee may be signed off work with stress but still be pefectly fit to continue with their second job providing that the nature of the second job is so different as to not be comparable to his main employment. A worker with a broken leg may not be fit to work on an assembly line but be fine to continue with activity where the injury is not placed in danger of further damage. A worker with a chest infection may not be fit to work in conditions likely to exacerbate the ailment, but may be fit for and indeed benefit from getting out in the fresh air and driving a van around. If disciplinary action were to result in such circumstances, a careless employer could (and has) found themselves facing on the wrong end of a Tribunal decision.

The question therefore in determining the wisdom of lodging an appeal against their decision to withdraw the promotion lies with the OP. What is the nature of his employment and how far removed from this is the activity involved in driving a van (or with helping to fit a bathroom, since having claimed he was doing that he cannot now say that this was untrue or else make the situation worse by lying)? If he certified unfit for work, would his GP consider that such activity was advisable, or likely to delay recovery? Would he, if he were the employer consider that his actions were unreasonable in the circumstances?

If, with detachment, the OP can answer these questions and still feel unjustly treated then an appeal may be in order. In which case he should do so as soon as possible, stressing the difference in the types of activity involved in working and giving (very minor) assistance with the bathroom, his exemplary record with the company, continuing dedication and willingness to prove himself worthy of promotion (even accepting a period of probation if neccessary). Correctly worded this need not stir the situation further, but IMO I would think it unlikely that the appeal would succeed. The employer need not prove that what you have done is wrong - it is sufficient just for them to believe it beyond reasonable doubt taking all available facts into account - unless you can demonstrate through presentation of additional factors that they acted unreasonably. You may however prove in appealing that you will be worthy of consideration for a second chance should an opportunity present itself in future.

[Weird Al Yankovic]

But the reason for being sick from work doesn't appear to be the issue here.

Last week I was offered a job within the company I work for - a significant step up. I spoke to my new boss on Friday and mentioned that I was helping out with fitting my sisters bathroom - in all