Unpaid breaks

[Stoper]

Hi,

I have noticed after reading through my employment contract that it does not mention being stoppped any money/time for breaks, I have been stopped 30 mins per day since Oct 2006.
I have spoken to employees from other sites doing the same job & can find no one else who is deducted the time.
I have had an initial meeting with "Management" and they are looking into it (for nearly 4 weeks now)
There are four employees in the same position,

Any advice appreciated

Steve

[Sidewinder]

You say that you are stopped time for breaks - what exactly does your contract say about your working hours? Is it, for example that you work say 9am-5.30pm with half an hour for lunch, or is this an extra deduction over and above an unpaid lunchtime rest period? Do you have a break allowance mid-session am and pm which the employer does not pay you for?

What exactly are the circumstances of this stoppage?

[Stoper]

My contract says a 50hour week ie 10 hour day, it states nothing at all abou breaks or time being deducted.
my clock card total is adjusted by hand from the gross hours I do by 2.5 hours a week as 30mins per day is deducted from my gross daily hours.

I generally work about 60-65 hours per week so this 2.5 hours is actually reducing my overtime total by this amount so at nearly £14 per hour amounts to a lot of lost income,

Steve

[Sidewinder]

I see your point!

I think that you need to push the grievance in writing, asking for a written explanation and a question as to how the lost hours will be made up to you if neccessary. Unless detailed specifically and accounted for in your T&Cs this would be covered by S13 of the Employment Rights Act relating to unlawful deductions from wages. Quote that in your grievance and the fact that if you do not receive a satisfactory response you will consider taking the matter to Tribunal.

I am guessing that you have either opted out of or are excepted from the Working Time Directive? That is a lot of hours

[Stoper]

Thanks for the information, makes me beleive that they are stalling after reading S13 Employment act, the deductions are not in the contract so time to esculate the grievance as you suggest in writing.

I will advise accordingly,

Steve

[Weird Al Yankovic]

More to the point, what is your job?

Is it driving?

[Stoper]

More to the point, what is your job?

Is it driving?

Yes it is, why is it relevant?

[Weird Al Yankovic]

Originally Posted by Stoper

Yes it is, why is it relevant?

Because, probably, you're not entitled to breaks.

Do you drive only up to 3.5 tonne?

Are your contracted hours 50 per week? And have you opted out of the 48 hour limit?

[poppynurse]

I thought everyone was entitled to breaks under the WTD?

[Weird Al Yankovic]

Originally Posted by poppynurse

I thought everyone was entitled to breaks under the WTD?

No, not 'mobile' workers (such as delivery drivers who do not exceed a 3.5 tonne vehicle).

They are entitled to 'adequate' rest only, which can be just breaks between shifts! (ie when one shift ends and another begins!)

I suspect the OP is allowed a 30 minute unpaid break each day and then the 2.5 hours per week are being deducted.

Unfortunately for the OP he probably doesn't even have a break as he won't have the time to take one.

It's an old trick delivery companies use to get every last ounce out of their drivers.

[Allwood]

Not having breaks must surely be wrong especially when driving - it would put everyone on the road at risk.

What about coach drivers are they not allowed breaks as well, as they go on long journeys.:o

[Weird Al Yankovic]

Originally Posted by Allwood

Not having breaks must surely be wrong especially when driving - it would put everyone on the road at risk.

What about coach drivers are they not allowed breaks as well, as they go on long journeys.:o

No breaks 'up to a 3.5 tonne vehicle.' A coach is in a different class as it may be heavier and it carries passengers. (Although it could be below 3.5 tonne too) And breaks must be taken

What appears specefic in this thread, (or probably is until confirmed by the OP), is that he is a delivery driver of a vehicle not exceeding 3.5 Tonne and is not a PSV driver. He will not be entitled to breaks, only adequate rest.

The rules are different for different classes and I will post up the regs when I have time.

Until the OP confirms then I suspect what his circumstance is.

[cal37]

Originally Posted by Weird Al Yankovic

No breaks 'up to a 3.5 tonne vehicle.' A coach is in a different class as it may be heavier and it carries passengers. (Although it could be below 3.5 tonne too) And breaks must be taken

What appears specefic in this thread, (or probably is until confirmed by the OP), is that he is a delivery driver of a vehicle not exceeding 3.5 Tonne and is not a PSV driver. He will not be entitled to breaks, only adequate rest.

The rules are different for different classes and I will post up the regs when I have time.

Until the OP confirms then I suspect what his circumstance is.

Mobile workers have to take a 30 min break after 6 hours of work under the working time directive. It does not matter if it’s a van or a 44 ton truck. Mobile workers do have periods of availability that is not counted towards working time. This means that if a driver is waiting to unload he is on a POA and does not have to count this towards his 48 hour week.

Working time Directive extended to mobile workers in road transport

The rules are the same for all classes that come under the tacho regs:

You may drive for 9 hours a day or 10 hours two times a week. After 4.5 hours driving you must have a 45 min break.

You must have 11 hours rest between shifts but this can be reduced to 9 hours 3 times a week.

You must have 45 hours rest at the end of the week but this can be reduced to 36 hours if at base or 24 hours if away from base.

There are loads more rules like split rest breaks etc etc but that is the basics.

Ok put it this way, a driver of a 44 ton artic can legally do this work,

DAY 1: Shift Starts Monday at 6am, he works till 9pm, of these 9 hours are driving. He finishes work, goes home, eats washes and gets to bed say at 10.30pm. (Working hours 15 sleep 6.5 hours)

DAY 2: He gets up at say 5am to start at 6am again (off duty time 9 hours Legal). He does the same as the day before and finishes at 9pm, home, eat wash etc in bed 10.30pm. (Working hours 15 sleep 6.5 hours)

DAY 3: He gets up at say 5am to start at 6am again (off duty time 9 hours Legal). He does the same as the day before and finishes at 9pm, home, eat wash etc in bed 10.30pm. (Working hours 15 sleep 6.5 hours)

DAY 4:He gets up at say 5am to start at 6am again (off duty time 9 hours Legal). He works till 7 pm, home eat wash etc in bed by 9pm say (working hours 11, sleep 8 hours)

DAY 5 : He gets up at say 5am to start at 6am again ( off duty time 11 hours legal ) He works till 7 pm , home eat wash etc in bed by 9pm say ( working hours 11, sleep 8 hours )

DAY 6 :He gets up at say 5am to start at 6am again ( off duty time 11 hours legal ) He works till 7 pm , home eat wash etc in bed by 9pm say ( working hours 11, sleep NA its the weekend)

Let’s total this up Total worked hours in the week .............78

Total sleep in the week ......................... ...........35.5 hours

This is legal I’ll not go into split shifts where you can legally work 16 hours a day and only have 8 hours off a night 6 days a week.

The WTD was meant to stop these sorts of hours but the haulage companies managed to get our government to put in periods of availability and this means truck drivers are doing as many hours as they always have.

This makes good reading Road Transport Directive

[Stoper]

I drive 44tonne, I have to, by ec driving regulations take a break after 4.5 hours driving, & also have to observe the 30 mins break after 6 hours work WTD if not taken due to driving hours, during these times I am still responsible for my vehicle & load with values often exceeding £30k.

This aside is totally irrelevent to the being deducted for time/breaks which is not included in my T&C of my employment contract it claerly states 50hours with no mention of deductions, I abide by the driving regulations, but my company does not seem to deduct breaks nationwide, but on my location it has & is happening which I am currently trying to address.

[Weird Al Yankovic]

Originally Posted by Stoper

I drive 44tonne, I have to, by ec driving regulations take a break after 4.5 hours driving, & also have to observe the 30 mins break after 6 hours work WTD if not taken due to driving hours, during these times I am still responsible for my vehicle & load with values often exceeding £30k.

This aside is totally irrelevent to the being deducted for time/breaks which is not included in my T&C of my employment contract it claerly states 50hours with no mention of deductions, I abide by the driving regulations, but my company does not seem to deduct breaks nationwide, but on my location it has & is happening which I am currently trying to address.

I'll get back to you on this and check it through.

[Weird Al Yankovic]

Originally Posted by cal37

Mobile workers have to take a 30 min break after 6 hours of work under the working time directive. It does not matter if it’s a van or a 44 ton truck.

Not the case cal37 and I will post up in due course the reasons why.

Leave it at that for now ok?