Termination of Employment letter received today... help needed!!!

[nowayjose]

I really need help on a letter my son received this morning.... quite a long and drawn out problem so please bear with me while I explain the situation......

Yesterday while at work my 17 year old son and another employee were asked to do overtime at short notice by the Company Director...the other employee told him that he was unable to do the overtime as did my son because he had commitments after work... On hearing this the C D went absolutely ballistic and shouted and bawled at my son for not working the overtime and how this order needed to be completed today and so on... my son said he was still unable to work and that legally he is not allowed to work for more than 40 hours a week because he is under 18...(we checked this out on a previous occasion when he felt pressured into doing overtime) ... the C Ds response to this was 'Bullsh*t who told you that, its a load of sh*t' At this time he was right infront of my sons face pointing a pen and continued swearing at him ...to this my son asked him 'Why are you in my face?' My son replied that he had enough of all this abuse for not doing overtime and the C D said just 'F**k off and come back on Monday in my office at 9.30' at this my son (foolishly) said 'To be honest you can stuff your f**king job' and left the yard as instructed to do so... after leaving the yard he telephoned me to come and pick him up and whilst on the phone to me the C D proceeded to carry on shouting and swearing at my son basically telling him to 'f*ck off the premises' (which at this time my son was)
That was all yesterday and this morning he received the following letter which is my son believes, is a totally one sided view of what happened with no mention of the verbal battering my son had to take within full view of the other employees...

EDIT Letter Removed due to containing employee names

I have a number of questions...
Is this discriminating against my son because he refused to work overtime..even though he is under 18?
He has never signed a contract which states that it is an obligation to work overtime, as suggested in the letter.
Why wasnt the other employee treated in the same manner?
Because my son 'said' to stick the job when backed into a corner and in the heat of the moment, is this legally binding or does a resignation have to be in writing?


Any advice would be gratefully received....

Thanks
NowayjoseXX

[nowayjose]

Sorry mods heres the letter again... hope its ok now:o

[cal37]

How long has your son worked there?
Was there any witnesses to him saying to f**k the job?
Up to that point how many hours had he worked?

Regarding overtime etc, there has been many cases where a EAT says it is reasonable for a company to expect overtime to be done.However as your son is undere 18 this would not count.

[djgordyp]

Originally Posted by cal37

Was there any witnesses to him saying to f**k the job?

Likewise was there any witnesses to the verbal abuse from the C D.

[Sidewinder]

Not a very pleasant situation for your son to be in. Can I ask how long he has worked there? Has he got a contract of employment or statement of terms detailing his normal working hours? Would the witnesses be prepared to confirm the harrassment and threatening behavious demonstrated by the Director?

You are correct in that being under 18 your son cannot normally be employed for more than 8 hours a day, or 40 hours a week, but there is a clause which states that the hours may be extended to maintain continuity of service or production, where there is no adult available to perform the task. This should however be covered in his contract, under a 'Due to the nature of our business overtime may need to be worked at short notice' clause. There is however a need for reason on the part of the employer and the overtime required should have been for a predetermined period of time. It is not unreasonable for your son to make arrangements for his own time, and he should not have been subjected to abuse from a Director of the company.

I think that there are grounds to make quite a fuss about this as it could be deemed that your son was effectively dismissed without notice and responded to extreme duress by telling the boss to shove it.

[shywazz]

All companys have proceedures to follow, instantly dis-missing an employee leaves the company open to a appeal, which your son should put in writing as soon as possible, if he has access to CAB or ACAS ask him to make contact with them, there will guide him through the appeals process, instant dismissal is normally deemed for instances of gross mis-conduct, reading the letter you placed on the thread, it doesn't state there have sacked your son, just accepted his own verbal resigination, which your son could claim wasn't said, if there bring a wittness to state he did say such, then that same wittness must have heard the verbal abuse given to your son at the same time from that CD so either way your son should seek the assistance of CAB or ACAS, to take up his case, if he's really brave enough, just advise him to attend work on monday, as infact the company have nothing in writing to state your son left upon his own acord...But 1st things 1st, the letter stating he didnt resign and that he expects the company to continue making the weekly wages payment, while there keep him from his place of employment... Your son needs to hold his ground, but seek the advice of a professional, like the CAB or ACAS...

[nowayjose]

Thanks to everyone for your replies.....In answer to your questions my son has started work there in March 2007 so almost a year... He works from 7am-4pm Mon-Thurs and 7am-1pm on Fridays....when he started working for them he offered to work unpaid for a week on a trial to see if everything was ok..after this time they decided to take him on and he says that he has never signed a contract of employment...I have asked my son if anyone would be prepared to say that the C D was verbally abusing him but he said he would very much doubt it because they would probably get a hard time from him in the future..I ve asked him not to phone any of the other employees because I dont want to give the C D any idea that we may possibly be making a complaint against him....
I dont know what my next move is now as regards whether he will be entitled to any money from the Social Security (not that it would be much anyway because he is under 1 as from the companies point of view, my son has resigned... would this be different if he was sacked???
Thanks all
NWJx

[nickmcmechan]

i think that with less than one years service your son will be able to do anything i'm afraid

do you all really want to expend your energy on such an employer; my advice would be to put matters behind you and let your son concentrate on his next job

learning to control your emotions is a ket to success in life, your son had a great learning as to the consequences of not doing so...they won...try and use it as a learning experience for his future success

[nowayjose]

Finding another job will be easier said than done Nickmechman... how on earth is he able to ask for a reference from a previous employer or give a reason for leaving last employment??
And unfortunately his job is quite skilled and where I live quite uncommon (stonemason) and to get a job in this field would be difficult..
What is the relevance of working over a year??
Does anyone else think the same???

[Conniff]

Sorry, have to disagree nick.

This is just the type of employer that was abolished when the slave trade was abolished.
He gave them a free weeks work and probably is on minimum wages as well.
I would fight this starting with the grievance process.

What was your son being paid Jose?


Normally an employee has to have 1 year's continuous employment with an employer to bring a claim for Unfair Dismissal.
The exceptions to this are:
a) If the dismissal is connected to the employee's Trade Union activities, carried out at an appropriate time, (this is usually out of work hours or during work with the employer's permission. This does not include strikes or working to rule).
b) The employee is dismissed for belonging to a Trade Union.
c) The employee is dismissed for refusing to join a Trade Union.
d) Dismissal was connected with the employee's pregnancy and maternity rights.
e) Dismissal of shop workers or those who work in the betting industry who object to working on Sundays.
f) Dismissal relating to a worker asserting their rights under employment laws.
g) Dismissal of an employee observing health & safety rules.
h) Dismissal of a worker elected as a representative for collective redundancy or transfer consultation purposes.
i) Dismissal of an employee for making a protected disclosure - "whistle-blowers".
Also if an employee is dismissed just before the 1 year period, for example 1 week before, an Employment Tribunal can add on the minimum notice period that the employee is entitled to [1 week) to give the employee the necessary 1 year.
This is done because Employment Tribunals realise that some employer's try to dismiss employees just before they qualify or threaten to do so to gain an advantage in for example pay talks. This extension will not be given if an employee is dismissed for a serious reason, for example theft.



I think you come under f)

[nowayjose]

Thanks Coniff well up until the 1st of January he was paid the minimum wage for under 18's which was £3.40 but as my son was very capable his supervisor put his name forward to the C D for a pay rise... as it goes previously my son had 2 separate bouts of sickness for which he put in SSP forms..this was obviously a concern to his employer so instead of giving him an hourly pay increase he gave him an 'attendance bonus' which meant that if he went sick again in the future, he would withold £50 out of his wages plus deduct any SSP, overall his rate is (was) around £4.60 an hour..its amazing but 3 weeks ago they took 2 other young boys on a trial basis Suitable replacements I wonder..
Hope this helps
NWJx

[nowayjose]

Thanks Coniff only read half of your reply before I answered... the only problem is in his employers eyes he has not been dismissed he has resigned.. quite clever I think

[Conniff]

Start the grievance process as suggest by others and make sure he has a friend with him at the meeting so that he has a witness to all that is said and the witness would also be the ideal person to make notes of what is said.

If this happened this weekend then I think he should turn up for work on Monday. He can say that he did not give notice as the Statutory terms (yet to be supplied) would have stated he must give notice and how long.

[Conniff]

Terms of employment.

This requires that all employers must provide employees with a written statement of their particulars of employment within two months of commencing work.

[1st Progeny]

Have a look at employment law in particular ACAS. Conniff gives excellent advice above. Your sons employer is legally resonsible to manage your sons stress at work, not cause it

[nowayjose]

Thanks for all your help Coniff... its a bit daunting trying to defend your son when you dont know your rights... Ive just looked at the ACAS website and have their helpline number..I think they will be the first port of call on Monday morning... I cant seem to find a local helpline number for CAB though..
Thanks again
NWJx