help been suspened unfairly advice needed

[bazrazmataz]

hi

I work in a call center and on friday night was suspened. Problem is a customer came through shouting and swearing at me , he hung up i called him back to advise him that he needed to do what we were asking or his telephone would not be cancelled and there would be futher long term problems. He proceeded in swearing name calling and telling me he was gonna get me placed on the dole. I released the call due to the abuse reported it to my manager (who was off) and left notes on the system.

Later that night im pulled into a meeting where they say the customer called back and complained that i swore at him several times. I plead my case and state that other agents can vouch for me , two other agents state that i did not swear though they were on their own calls some of the time and didnt hear all the converstation.

Im then suspened, today i get a call saying there are no recordings of either call and that ill be called in for a meeting in 7 days time. All this time im loosing money and am very upset the company take this mans word over mine as hes lieing and ive worked there for 5 years.

What grounds do i have if they dismiss me, without any proof at all.

Can anyone offer any advice.

cheers

[Sidewinder]

Simple answer is that without proof, you cannot be dismissed for swearing. Your employer would need at least a witness who heard the conversation in order to corroborate what they have been led to believe by the customer. You say that you are losing money - does that mean that you have been suspended without pay? If so then this is highly irregular.

You need to sit down and write exactly what was said and by whom, including the threats and language used by the customer. Do it in the form of a dialogue whilst it is still fresh in your mind. If your five years service count for anything then a reasonable employer will take your good record into account and will not shy away from telling the customer that he must have been mistaken.

Insofar as the hearing itself goes, your employer should have advised you of the date for the meeting, provided details of what you are accused of, and what sanctions they may take if they believe that there is a case to answer. You must be given the right to be accompanied. At the meeting the employer must outline the accusation and any evidence which they have to support that accusation. You must also be given the opportunity to present your case, ie 5 years service, experienced in dealing with difficult situations, previous good record and read the transcript of what happened. State categorically that you in no shape or form dealt with the situation inappropriately or used any threatening or abusive language and challenge them to prove why they believe that you may have done and are willing to accept the customer's word over yours. Unless you have a previous history of this, then there is simply no case to answer and you should be allowed to return to work with no loss of wages whatsoever. Anything less and you will have a clear case to take this matter to a Tribunal.

Your employer should take this as an indication that call monitoring software would be appropriate in protecting staff (and customers) from similar accusations in future.

[bazrazmataz]

Thanks for you reponse. when i say im loosing money im suspended on basic pay but i work in a sales environment where i ern 150 pound bonus a day, its a lot for me to loose. one thing i note was u say as long as i dont have a historyof this behaviour around 3.5 years ago i was acused of being rude to a customer which i got a written warning for but this was only supposed to be on my record for 12 months, at the time i did admit to being rude and lernt my lesson and was in no way at all out of line this time. can this be held against me after all this time , it was only rudeness and not swearing.

[Sidewinder]

No. Anything which was issued on the understanding that it would be expunged after 12 months cannot be used to support action being taken after that period. If they try to do so then you are perfectly within your rights to question this and to state that this should not still be on your record.

I quite understand about losing commission - the only thing that I can suggest would be to send a letter tomorrow requesting an earlier hearing. Tell your employer that you have no doubt whatsoever that you have no case to answer as witnesses x and x will confirm that to the best of their knowledge nothing untoward was said, there appears to be no evidence at all that you have acted incorrectly apart from an uncorroborated complaint from a vindictive customer and that you feel that the suspension is unwarranted. Furthermore it is unfairly denying you the opportunity to earn a living and in those circumstances you are requesting a hearing as soon as possible in order that you may return to work. In view of the fact that the unneccessary suspension has already cost £x, you would appreciate knowing how this lost income will be made good.

However you word it is up to you, but I do not think it unreasonable to highlight that this is potentially costing an innocent member of their staff a significant amount of money. It will also highlight the fact that they have little or no evidence against you and you are not prepared to sit back and wait, so sure are you that you have done nothing wrong.

[diskmandave]

If I could just briefly add to what has already been posted....

I'm then suspended, today i get a call saying there are no recordings of either call and that ill be called in for a meeting in 7 days time. All this time i'm losing money

This falls under being suspended on full pay pending a disciplinary investigation, given the lack of evidence against you this cannot be seen as a gross misconduct situation and you should be getting full pay throughout your suspension.

Your next step IMHO is to raise a formal grievance complaint with you HR department as soon as possible.

Also, as has already been stated, a written warning issued 3 1/2 years ago shouldn't even be in your personnel file let alone be referred to this far down the line, it should have been removed after 12 months.

Good luck, Dave.

[bazrazmataz]

thanks for your input guys its helped a lot

[bazrazmataz]

just a quick question can they still take me to a hearing without proof as they have no case

[hanzo]

Originally Posted by Sidewinder

No. Anything which was issued on the understanding that it would be expunged after 12 months cannot be used to support action being taken after that period. If they try to do so then you are perfectly within your rights to question this and to state that this should not still be on your record.

Actually, there was a recent judgement on this: Airbus UK Ltd v MG Webb [2008] EWCA Civ 49 (07 February 200 . In certain circumstances an employer can rely on an expired warning, but it has to be closely related to the new act of alleged misconduct. An employer would still find it pretty much impossible to justify relying on a warning issued 3.5 years ago. Sorry to go slightly OT.

[bazrazmataz]

today i found out my hearing is not till the 25th of the month im a little surprized as to why this is the case. Aparently they have no recordings at all of the call and are going on the case that i should not have called the customer and apparently in my first statement i stated that i raised my tone to match the customer which i dont remember saying ( im sure i said i raised my voice a little as he was shouting over me). The only thing i can presume from the delay in the hearing was the fact that the customer told me he had recorded the call on his answerphone , strangely he never mentioned it to the manager when he called to complain. I wonder if they have requested him to post it in but then i cant see why he would do such a thing and make a fool of his acusations.

Orignally i was told that i would get a notice of a meeting in seven days and i was assured that they would try and hurry the procedure. Now im being told im having a meeting in 11 days. It seems very strange to me, is it 7 working days notice that must be given ?

[Sidewinder]

The ACAS Code of Practice recommends that the period of time between notification of the hearing and the hearing itself should be sufficiently long in order to allow time to prepare, but not so long that memories have started to fade. Quite frankly I think that 11 days is outrageous and is not only in danger of putting you at a disadvantage in terms of recollection of the event, but as you have already stated this is likely to cost you a huge amount in income.

I would strongly recommend that you write to the company at Director level and ask them why they feel that this time delay is acceptable. You believe that there is no case to answer worthy of suspension, their actions in suspending you are depriving you of your full income, and in delaying the hearing you are being subjected to unwarranted stress. Furthermore, you are also being denied the opportunity to present your case whilst the facts are still fresh in the mind and maintain that far from being subjected to disciplinary action, you are disappointed that you have received no support in terms of the foul abuse which you suffered from the customer in question. In the circumstances you respectfully request that the hearing be held much earlier in order that you may present your case and clear your good name.

Let them have both barrels. Good luck.

[bazrazmataz]

Originally Posted by Sidewinder

The ACAS Code of Practice recommends that the period of time between notification of the hearing and the hearing itself should be sufficiently long in order to allow time to prepare, but not so long that memories have started to fade. Quite frankly I think that 11 days is outrageous and is not only in danger of putting you at a disadvantage in terms of recollection of the event, but as you have already stated this is likely to cost you a huge amount in income.

I would strongly recommend that you write to the company at Director level and ask them why they feel that this time delay is acceptable. You believe that there is no case to answer worthy of suspension, their actions in suspending you are depriving you of your full income, and in delaying the hearing you are being subjected to unwarranted stress. Furthermore, you are also being denied the opportunity to present your case whilst the facts are still fresh in the mind and maintain that far from being subjected to disciplinary action, you are disappointed that you have received no support in terms of the foul abuse which you suffered from the customer in question. In the circumstances you respectfully request that the hearing be held much earlier in order that you may present your case and clear your good name.

Let them have both barrels. Good luck.

i dont think i can contact them at director level its a massive massive company and i doubt they would care about this level (company is orange dunno if im not to say that ).

Im still waiting for the offical letter of my date but i was wondering is there anything legal that entitles me to know all of their evidence/case/notes etc before the meeting so i can prepare my own statement based around it ?

What im concerned about is the manager who started the whole procedure against me is well know for enjoying the power trip and attention that these situations give her, i belive that at the meeting she may try and pull something out of the closet that she has kept quiet. she tried to sack me before and it totally backfired against her and at the end of that meeting she started to make very sly comments back stabbing my manager and claiming it was all his idea, but he who is a very honest man told me she was pushing for my dissmisal and i belive this is the reason she is doing it again.

[Sidewinder]

In view of the size of the company I can accept that raising the matter at Director level might be inappropriate, however I do firmly believe that a paper trail of some sort regarding your objection to the delay and request for an earlier hearing would be appropriate - perhaps you could address this to the immediate superior to the manager instigating the action, or perhaps to the HR Manager?

Although the disciplinary procedure should be in line with whatever the company policy dictates, below are the Statutory Minimum requirements for a company considering action against an employee:-

What is the three-step procedure?
If an employer is thinking of dismissing an employee – or imposing a penalty short of dismissal such as suspension without pay, demotion, loss of seniority or loss of pay –
they must follow the statutory procedure, which is set out in full in Schedule 2 of the Employment Act 2002. The main steps may be summarised as follows:

Step 1
Write to the employee notifying them of what they are alleged to have done wrong – in terms of performance or conduct; set out the basis for the allegations; and invite them to a meeting to discuss the matter.

Step 2
Inform the employee of the grounds for making the allegations and hold a meeting to discuss them – at which the employee has the right to be accompanied. Notify the employee of the decision and the right to appeal.

Step 3
Hold an appeal meeting (if the employee wishes to appeal) at which the employee has the right to be accompanied – and inform the employee of the final decision.

The minimum requirements
Following the three-step procedure is a minimum requirement. It is strongly advisable for an employer and employee to start talking to each other long before any disciplinary process reaches even the likelihood of dismissal, or action short of dismissal. For example, counselling or a quiet word might be the most appropriate first step or – if formal action is required – an improvement note may help to resolve the problem in cases of unsatisfactory performance.

Failure to comply with the procedure
An employment tribunal will automatically find a dismissal unfair if the statutory procedure has not been followed where it applies. The tribunal will also, except in exceptional circumstances, increase compensation for the employee by between 10 and 50 per cent. Equally, if the employment tribunal finds that an employee has been dismissed unfairly but has failed to participate in the procedure (for instance they have failed to attend the disciplinary meeting without good cause), compensation may be reduced by usually between 10 and 50 per cent.

As you can see, procedure is everything, and managers (particularly those with inflated opinions of their own importance) continually fall short of what they need to do to make action watertight. In your case, I can already see holes emerging.

There is no requirement for your employer to share all of the evidence at this stage, however they should have advised you in writing of the precise nature of the allegation against you. In doing this, they cannot start to include other examples of alleged misconduct if their No1 case starts to fall apart. Therefore, if they have cited this one instance of a customer complaint and an uncorroborated allegation as the reason for the disciplinary action then you cannot have other allegations made at the hearing.

[bazrazmataz]

thanks for the info. Ill await the letter that acutally confirms the date if this does not arrive 2moro im going to ring HR because this is just bordering on madness and as each day passed i find myself feeling contiunally worse and my recolection of events and fading. It just doesnt feel right to me that the meeting is so far in advance and i cant help feeling something strange is going on.

[Sidewinder]

We will wait and see what they say then. Should you phone, then don't forget to tell them that you feel that the delay is prejudicial to your case.

[bazrazmataz]

The madness continues . today still no letter so i called the HR department and asked what on earth was going on. They claimed that the incident was still be investigated and no meeting was set.... i know for a fact they have no recording of the calls, the customer claims he made one but even if thats the case im sure they are not allowed to use it as he did not state that he was recording till the end ( plus i doubt that he recorded anything anyway).

HR then told me to call the manager who suspended me they gave me two wrong numbers then when i finally get the correct one she does not answer and ive rang about 10 times.

I cannot for the life of me understand what is causing this to be dragged out, my belief is that they are clutching at straws and desprate for something to turn up out of nowhere. Even the HR department stated that there still may not be a meeting we have to wait for the investigation. All this time im left to sit home , stressed out and feeling terrible.